plumbo
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Consegne e notizie sugli A380
- Autore Discussione DusCgn
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Francesco.B.
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- 24 Marzo 2009
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A me pareva di ricordare di 30 330-300 per Emirates, ma forse era solo una lettera d'intenti e no un ordine fermo.
EI-MAW
Utente Registrato
- 25 Dicembre 2007
- 7,177
- 1,499
E' fuori produzione da un annetto. Rimangono in produzione le serie -500 (pochissime, diverse VIP e governativi) e il -600, ma anche qui non moltissimi.
- 10 Dicembre 2007
- 15,049
- 3,431
No, anche perchè il 340 è ormai superato dai bireattori e non lo ordina più nessuno.
Secondo il sito Airbus, rimangono da consegnare 5 345 (3 a privati e 2 a Kingfisher) e un 346 ad Iberia, dopo di che il marcione sarà probabilmente consegnato alla storia.
Dallo stesso sito si evince che EK non ha in ordine nessun 330.
http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries
Quindi nel prossimo futuro in casa Airbus solo due prodotti per il lungo raggio, A350 ed A380 con il salto delle due gamme che sarà rappresentato dal passaggio dall'A350-1000 all'A380-800.
Immagino che l'A350-800 farà fuori annche l'A330-200, giusto ?
Immagino che l'A350-800 farà fuori annche l'A330-200, giusto ?
AlexNce
Utente Registrato
No, in realtà l'A340 non è fuori produzione. E' ancora commercializzato e se ordinato si può tranquillamente produrre dato che il 90% dei componenti è in comune con l'A330. Ovviamente condividono la stessa linea di montaggio dunque i costi di per Airbus sono praticamente li stessi. Che il mercato non lo richieda è un'altra cosa. Ma non avrebbe nemmeno senso toglierlo dall'offerta: i margini rimangono buoni e... non si sa mai.
La risposta è sì se parliamo del lungo termine. A breve termine l'A330 rimane e non viene sostituito dall'A350 anche perché sono due aerei che in ottica di famiglia possono tranquillamente far parte della stessa flotta. Tant'è vero che la stragrande maggioranza dei clienti di A350 ha o ha in ordine anche gli A330 che rimarranno a lungo dopo l'entrata in servizio dell'A350.
Ricordo che l'A330 ha venduto di più da quando è iniziata la commercializzazione del 787 che prima, in una proporzione di circa 60%-40%! E contemporaneamente sono iniziate anche le vendite del 350 che sono a quota 530.
E' tutt'altro che un aereo morto, anzi è il best seller dei widebodies.
Stiamo completando la prima airframe statica, il primo aereo "volante" sarà pronto a fine 2011, primo volo 2012 e prime consegne Q1-Q2 2013. Siamo on track.
- 10 Dicembre 2007
- 15,049
- 3,431
Rick, toglimi una curiosità: quando sono stati lanciati i programmi 345/346 ed era oramai chiaro che per quelle dimensioni erano assai più redditizi i bireattori, come mai non si è deciso di allungare il 330 e motorizzarlo con i GE115 del 77W?
Credo che il programma avrebbe avuto ben altro successo, come stanno a dimostrare gli ordini dei 332/333. C' era qualche problema tecnico, o che altro?
Credo che il programma avrebbe avuto ben altro successo, come stanno a dimostrare gli ordini dei 332/333. C' era qualche problema tecnico, o che altro?
[ot]
ma, giusto un'idea per riempire il buco di gamma tra il successore della serie 320 e il 350: portare avanti quel progetto di aggiornamento del 330 che era stato fatto prima di cambiare totalmente modello con l'xwb no?
alla fine si tratta di mettere due genx o trent aggiornati e già si compete quasi alla pari dove boeing arriva col 787-8 che avrebbe comunque un range superiore di 1000nm e probabilmente costi di manutenzione inferiori..
porterebbe via troppa clientela dal 350xwb? meglio lasciare questa fetta a boeing che spendere una quantità di risorse relativamente bassa? mercato troppo ristretto?
a mio modo di vedere il 330 sta dimostrando di essere molto competitivo ed eccezionalmente richiesto dal mercato.. "an exceptional workhorse" come direbbe Leahy
annunciate rivoluzioni epocali poi, anche portate dalla sbandieratissima (e alquanto di moda.......) fibra di carbonio non sembrano essercene così tante alla fin fine..anzi semmai fin ora tante magagne ingegneristiche..
@belumosi
per l'utilizzo del ge90-115 c'è il problema del contratto in esclusiva con boeing.. anche rolls comunque aveva sviluppato una versione del trent 800 da 115000 poi accantonata.
[/ot]
rick, non pensi ci sarà un aggiornamento dei motori del 380 contestualmente o leggermente successivo all'introduzione del -900 ormai dato per certo da Enders? la tecnologia in quel campo fa passi da gigante e anche un 2-4% di sfc è significativo con i tempi che corrono.. credo inoltre che il 380 rimarrà sul mercato per un bel po', diventando un classico dei cieli à la 747
ma, giusto un'idea per riempire il buco di gamma tra il successore della serie 320 e il 350: portare avanti quel progetto di aggiornamento del 330 che era stato fatto prima di cambiare totalmente modello con l'xwb no?
alla fine si tratta di mettere due genx o trent aggiornati e già si compete quasi alla pari dove boeing arriva col 787-8 che avrebbe comunque un range superiore di 1000nm e probabilmente costi di manutenzione inferiori..
porterebbe via troppa clientela dal 350xwb? meglio lasciare questa fetta a boeing che spendere una quantità di risorse relativamente bassa? mercato troppo ristretto?
a mio modo di vedere il 330 sta dimostrando di essere molto competitivo ed eccezionalmente richiesto dal mercato.. "an exceptional workhorse" come direbbe Leahy
annunciate rivoluzioni epocali poi, anche portate dalla sbandieratissima (e alquanto di moda.......) fibra di carbonio non sembrano essercene così tante alla fin fine..anzi semmai fin ora tante magagne ingegneristiche..
@belumosi
per l'utilizzo del ge90-115 c'è il problema del contratto in esclusiva con boeing.. anche rolls comunque aveva sviluppato una versione del trent 800 da 115000 poi accantonata.
[/ot]
rick, non pensi ci sarà un aggiornamento dei motori del 380 contestualmente o leggermente successivo all'introduzione del -900 ormai dato per certo da Enders? la tecnologia in quel campo fa passi da gigante e anche un 2-4% di sfc è significativo con i tempi che corrono.. credo inoltre che il 380 rimarrà sul mercato per un bel po', diventando un classico dei cieli à la 747
Ultima modifica:
@belumosi: sul 340, aclfacr ti ha risposto meglio di quanto potessi fare io! Mi sento solo di aggiungere che il 340 e' prodotto "on demand" e ha (o almeno finora ha avuto) la sua nicchia di clienti che necessitavano un quad sulle tratte extra ETOPS. Chiaramente tale nicchia si e' ridotta, ma... non si sa mai!
@aclfacr: il progetto di aggiornamento del 330 si chiamava A350, poi convertito nell'A350XWB che e' un aereo completamente nuovo e totalmente diverso dall'A330. Visto che per ora le risorse sono concentrate li', oltre che sull'A380, non avrebbe molto senso aggiornare un aereo che, comunque, nel lungo termine uscira' di produzione e che, soprattutto, continua ad venir ordinato cosi' com'e'!
Per quanto riguarda i motori dell'A380: si', e' un'ipotesi abbastanza plausibile che si agisca sui motori, se non altro perche' come tutti i prodotti di qualsiasi industria devono venire costantemente sottoposti a lifting, restyling, ecc. ecc. per poter offrirsi sempre in veste attrattiva. Non so dirti pero' con che tempi e modi, per il momento qui non se ne parla.
@aclfacr: il progetto di aggiornamento del 330 si chiamava A350, poi convertito nell'A350XWB che e' un aereo completamente nuovo e totalmente diverso dall'A330. Visto che per ora le risorse sono concentrate li', oltre che sull'A380, non avrebbe molto senso aggiornare un aereo che, comunque, nel lungo termine uscira' di produzione e che, soprattutto, continua ad venir ordinato cosi' com'e'!
Per quanto riguarda i motori dell'A380: si', e' un'ipotesi abbastanza plausibile che si agisca sui motori, se non altro perche' come tutti i prodotti di qualsiasi industria devono venire costantemente sottoposti a lifting, restyling, ecc. ecc. per poter offrirsi sempre in veste attrattiva. Non so dirti pero' con che tempi e modi, per il momento qui non se ne parla.
malpensante
Bannato
Non lo so, non ne ho idea!
Posso solo ipotizzare che la differenza sia sull'ordine del 15% in configurazione standard, dunque poco al di sopra dei 600 pax. In configurazione all-eco l'A380-800 e' progettato per massimo 853 seats, se la proporzione fosse la stessa (ma non e' detto che lo sia) stiamo parlando di poco meno di 1000 pax. Sono solo mie speculazioni, non ho mai visto il progetto purtroppo! Ci sono cose che sono tenute segrete anche a noi!
EI-MAW
Utente Registrato
- 25 Dicembre 2007
- 7,177
- 1,499
Pardon, forse mi sono espresso male per l'errata mia convinzione che il "marcione" fosse solo la serie -300.
....e in ogni caso, stiamo parlando del mio aereo preferito, lunga vita al 340-600!!!
Lufthansa starts A380 service, says flights are 'fully booked'
By Kurt Hofmann and Cathy Buyck | June 14, 2010
Lufthansa operated its first scheduled A380 flight Friday from Frankfurt to Tokyo Narita with 520 passengers and 22 crew onboard.
Thrice-weekly service on the route will become daily on Aug. 4 following delivery of LH's second A380 by the end of July (ATWOnline, April 30). Its third will operate between FRA and Beijing thrice-weekly beginning Aug. 25 and its fourth will fly between FRA and Johannesburg thrice-weekly from Oct. 25.
LH last week flew its A380 from the Berlin Air Show to Brussels to show the aircraft to the Belgian market, part of its tour of European cities prior to Friday's service launch. It is configured with 526 seats: Eight first class and 98 business class on the upper deck and 420 economy on the lower deck."The [FRA-NRT] flight is almost fully booked through September with very strong bookings in first class," LH Chief Pilot and COO Juergen Raps told ATW Daily News onboard the flight from Berlin Schoenefeld to BRU.
The LH A380's visit to Brussels "proves that Brussels Airlines plays an important role in Lufthansa's global network and that Brussels has a place in its multihub strategy," Brussels Airlines Co-CEO Bernard Gustin told this website during the flight. "We are too small to operate the A380 ourselves, but through our partnership with Lufthansa we are able to offer this fantanstic product to our clients."
SN will add its code to LH's A380 FRA-NRT service as well as the planned service to Johannesburg, he said. "Subject to traffic rights, we want to maximize codesharing on Lufthansa's global network."
atwonline.com
By Kurt Hofmann and Cathy Buyck | June 14, 2010
Lufthansa operated its first scheduled A380 flight Friday from Frankfurt to Tokyo Narita with 520 passengers and 22 crew onboard.
Thrice-weekly service on the route will become daily on Aug. 4 following delivery of LH's second A380 by the end of July (ATWOnline, April 30). Its third will operate between FRA and Beijing thrice-weekly beginning Aug. 25 and its fourth will fly between FRA and Johannesburg thrice-weekly from Oct. 25.
LH last week flew its A380 from the Berlin Air Show to Brussels to show the aircraft to the Belgian market, part of its tour of European cities prior to Friday's service launch. It is configured with 526 seats: Eight first class and 98 business class on the upper deck and 420 economy on the lower deck."The [FRA-NRT] flight is almost fully booked through September with very strong bookings in first class," LH Chief Pilot and COO Juergen Raps told ATW Daily News onboard the flight from Berlin Schoenefeld to BRU.
The LH A380's visit to Brussels "proves that Brussels Airlines plays an important role in Lufthansa's global network and that Brussels has a place in its multihub strategy," Brussels Airlines Co-CEO Bernard Gustin told this website during the flight. "We are too small to operate the A380 ourselves, but through our partnership with Lufthansa we are able to offer this fantanstic product to our clients."
SN will add its code to LH's A380 FRA-NRT service as well as the planned service to Johannesburg, he said. "Subject to traffic rights, we want to maximize codesharing on Lufthansa's global network."
atwonline.com
Con un interessante passaggio che chiarisce in parte il bisogno di cosi' tanti aerei per EK vista anche la posizione geografica del loro hub e i piani di phase-out (scusate, dismissione... ) che in parte compensano i nuovi entranti:
New A380 deal part of long-term strategy for “measured growth”: Clark
By Max Kingsley-Jones
Emirates gave the Airbus A380 a major shot in the arm last week, placing the biggest single order ever for the superjumbo with a deal for 32 aircraft. The airline's chief executive Tim Clark dismissed cynicism from certain quarters about the deal, which takes the airline's orders for the 500-seater to 90 aircraft, saying that it simply reconfirms its successful strategy of "measured, staged growth".
The Dubai carrier signed the $11.5 billion firm order at last week's ILA show in Berlin, where it had also just taken delivery of the 10th of 58 Engine Alliance GP7200-powered A380s from its existing orders.
Clark says that the deal for 32 additional A380s, which will also be GP7200-powered, "has been in the making for a long time" and is "simply an extension of the growth strategy which have been doing successfully for quite a number of years".
Deliveries will begin shortly after the last of the current batch arrives in January 2015, says Clark: "The 32 will be delivered between April 2015 and November 2017.
The decision to expand the Emirates A380 fleet to 90 aircraft over the next seven years is part of the airline's strategy to ensure "we have the delivery slots we want at the time that we want, to allow us to grow at the pace that we want to", Clark says.
"When the going gets good again, if we haven't placed our orders and bagged the positions for the aircraft that we want to do the job then we'll be behind the curve when everybody else is doing it."
The airline is operating the 10 A380s already delivered to destinations across its network, including to key points in Europe, North America, Asia and Australasia. Clark says that as the airline's traffic and network grows the double-decker will be deployed to more destinations in these regions, replacing existing widebodies, and also to increase frequencies.
The size that Emirates'A380 commitment has grown to now raises a few eyebrows, but Clark uses a simple utilisation calculation to justify it: "When we send an A380 to the US East or West Coast on a daily basis, I lose 2.5 aircraft. If I go there twice a day that's five aircraft, so you've only got to do six destinations on a double-daily frequency on 14.5h missions and those 32 aircraft are gone."
He also points out that the airline will begin a phase-out in February next year of around 68 of its older widebodies, including A330-200s, A340-300/500s and Boeing 777-200s. These aircraft will be replaced by the larger 777-300ER, and the A350 XWB which is on order, as the A380s arrive and succeed those big twinjets on denser routes.
The A380 order, which is the first for the superjumbo in 2010 and comes after several years of slow sales, has met with criticism in some quarters with observers querying the logic of Airbus's over-reliance on one market for A380 sales.
"From Emirates' viewpoint, it might just be win-win. They'll almost certainly get walk-away rights, so the worst-case scenario is a cancelled order," says Richard Aboulafia, vice-president analysis at Teal Group.
"Best case is better market access, and a lot of heavily discounted capacity with which to take advantage of this access. But even then it's impossible to imagine an expansion plan that absorbed 90 A380s before 2026, especially given all their other order positions."
But Airbus chief executive Tom Enders says the benefits of having so many A380s earmarked for one carrier outweigh the business risks. "There is always a risk in this sort of exposure, but if you see how Emirates operates, it has one of the best managements in the world. Their strategy is not built on sand. They see chances where others see risks. So I don't think we have too many eggs with a weak customer, as Emirates have demonstrated [by emerging quickly from] this crisis."
He adds: "Industrially it is much better than selling four A380s here and six there, with each one differently customised. Of course, it is easier for us to have bigger orders with fewer customers."
Although Emirates was a launch customer for the A380, its first commitment was for just seven aircraft (plus five options) and the growing success of the superjumbo at the airline has come as a relatively recent surprise to Airbus. Until 2005, the airline's Dubai hub was notably absent from the list of top 10 superjumbo hubs in Airbus's 20-year global market forecasts - it then went straight in at number six.
However Enders says that A380 was developed very much with the Middle East and Asia in mind. He sees Asia as the bigger opportunity now, as this Emirates order probably represents one of the final big commitments from that region. "I think we have exploited that market already".
He believes the Emirates commitment will prompt rivals to reconsider their fleet strategy. "Some of the blue-chip airlines will have to think 'Are we getting it right and Tim [Clark] is getting it very wrong. What will the world look like when Emirates has 90 A380s?'."
Although Airbus's A380 product-marketing chief Richard Carcaillet acknowledges that the industry is not used to seeing orders of this size for very large aircraft, he is convinced more customers will follow the Emirates lead: "I have no doubt we'll see a number of airlines with fleets of this sort of size in the medium to long term."
But Aboulafia points out that as Emirates is not growing with traffic that is organic to Dubai, its huge deal could hurt other potential A380 customers. "Much of Emirates' traffic has been siphoned off from Europe's legacy carriers. Europe appears willing to let Emirates poach this traffic in order to save the A380. Since the A380 seems to have exactly one big fan (whose enthusiasm has been overstated) letting Emirates grow at European carriers' expense might be the only way to generate demand for this airplane."
Speaking a month before the Emirates deal, Airbus's chief salesman John Leahy doubled his earlier estimate for the minimum number of new A380 orders in 2010 to "at least 20". But Aboulafia says if this deal constitutes that forecast, it "raises troubling questions about this programme, particularly if ILFC cancels its orders. It has been a very long time since they've secured new A380 orders, or a meaningful commitment from someone new."
However Carcaillet says that Airbus is currently engaged in A380 sales campaigns with at least three potential new customers for the type, although he is non-committal whether any more deals could materialise this year.
flightglobal.com
) che in parte compensano i nuovi entranti:New A380 deal part of long-term strategy for “measured growth”: Clark
By Max Kingsley-Jones
Emirates gave the Airbus A380 a major shot in the arm last week, placing the biggest single order ever for the superjumbo with a deal for 32 aircraft. The airline's chief executive Tim Clark dismissed cynicism from certain quarters about the deal, which takes the airline's orders for the 500-seater to 90 aircraft, saying that it simply reconfirms its successful strategy of "measured, staged growth".
The Dubai carrier signed the $11.5 billion firm order at last week's ILA show in Berlin, where it had also just taken delivery of the 10th of 58 Engine Alliance GP7200-powered A380s from its existing orders.
Clark says that the deal for 32 additional A380s, which will also be GP7200-powered, "has been in the making for a long time" and is "simply an extension of the growth strategy which have been doing successfully for quite a number of years".
Deliveries will begin shortly after the last of the current batch arrives in January 2015, says Clark: "The 32 will be delivered between April 2015 and November 2017.
The decision to expand the Emirates A380 fleet to 90 aircraft over the next seven years is part of the airline's strategy to ensure "we have the delivery slots we want at the time that we want, to allow us to grow at the pace that we want to", Clark says.
"When the going gets good again, if we haven't placed our orders and bagged the positions for the aircraft that we want to do the job then we'll be behind the curve when everybody else is doing it."
The airline is operating the 10 A380s already delivered to destinations across its network, including to key points in Europe, North America, Asia and Australasia. Clark says that as the airline's traffic and network grows the double-decker will be deployed to more destinations in these regions, replacing existing widebodies, and also to increase frequencies.
The size that Emirates'A380 commitment has grown to now raises a few eyebrows, but Clark uses a simple utilisation calculation to justify it: "When we send an A380 to the US East or West Coast on a daily basis, I lose 2.5 aircraft. If I go there twice a day that's five aircraft, so you've only got to do six destinations on a double-daily frequency on 14.5h missions and those 32 aircraft are gone."
He also points out that the airline will begin a phase-out in February next year of around 68 of its older widebodies, including A330-200s, A340-300/500s and Boeing 777-200s. These aircraft will be replaced by the larger 777-300ER, and the A350 XWB which is on order, as the A380s arrive and succeed those big twinjets on denser routes.
The A380 order, which is the first for the superjumbo in 2010 and comes after several years of slow sales, has met with criticism in some quarters with observers querying the logic of Airbus's over-reliance on one market for A380 sales.
"From Emirates' viewpoint, it might just be win-win. They'll almost certainly get walk-away rights, so the worst-case scenario is a cancelled order," says Richard Aboulafia, vice-president analysis at Teal Group.
"Best case is better market access, and a lot of heavily discounted capacity with which to take advantage of this access. But even then it's impossible to imagine an expansion plan that absorbed 90 A380s before 2026, especially given all their other order positions."
But Airbus chief executive Tom Enders says the benefits of having so many A380s earmarked for one carrier outweigh the business risks. "There is always a risk in this sort of exposure, but if you see how Emirates operates, it has one of the best managements in the world. Their strategy is not built on sand. They see chances where others see risks. So I don't think we have too many eggs with a weak customer, as Emirates have demonstrated [by emerging quickly from] this crisis."
He adds: "Industrially it is much better than selling four A380s here and six there, with each one differently customised. Of course, it is easier for us to have bigger orders with fewer customers."
Although Emirates was a launch customer for the A380, its first commitment was for just seven aircraft (plus five options) and the growing success of the superjumbo at the airline has come as a relatively recent surprise to Airbus. Until 2005, the airline's Dubai hub was notably absent from the list of top 10 superjumbo hubs in Airbus's 20-year global market forecasts - it then went straight in at number six.
However Enders says that A380 was developed very much with the Middle East and Asia in mind. He sees Asia as the bigger opportunity now, as this Emirates order probably represents one of the final big commitments from that region. "I think we have exploited that market already".
He believes the Emirates commitment will prompt rivals to reconsider their fleet strategy. "Some of the blue-chip airlines will have to think 'Are we getting it right and Tim [Clark] is getting it very wrong. What will the world look like when Emirates has 90 A380s?'."
Although Airbus's A380 product-marketing chief Richard Carcaillet acknowledges that the industry is not used to seeing orders of this size for very large aircraft, he is convinced more customers will follow the Emirates lead: "I have no doubt we'll see a number of airlines with fleets of this sort of size in the medium to long term."
But Aboulafia points out that as Emirates is not growing with traffic that is organic to Dubai, its huge deal could hurt other potential A380 customers. "Much of Emirates' traffic has been siphoned off from Europe's legacy carriers. Europe appears willing to let Emirates poach this traffic in order to save the A380. Since the A380 seems to have exactly one big fan (whose enthusiasm has been overstated) letting Emirates grow at European carriers' expense might be the only way to generate demand for this airplane."
Speaking a month before the Emirates deal, Airbus's chief salesman John Leahy doubled his earlier estimate for the minimum number of new A380 orders in 2010 to "at least 20". But Aboulafia says if this deal constitutes that forecast, it "raises troubling questions about this programme, particularly if ILFC cancels its orders. It has been a very long time since they've secured new A380 orders, or a meaningful commitment from someone new."
However Carcaillet says that Airbus is currently engaged in A380 sales campaigns with at least three potential new customers for the type, although he is non-committal whether any more deals could materialise this year.
flightglobal.com