777 Malaysia (MH17) AMS-KUL cade in Ucraina al confine con la Russia
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naplover
Utente Registrato
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Non volevo neanche creare polemiche o andare OT.
I',m sorry
Se ho dato l'impressione di avercela con te chiedo scusa non era mia intenzione;
Non volevo neanche creare polemiche o andare OT.
I',m sorry
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
MH17 plane crash: Evidence 'was tampered with'
Black box flight recorders from the crash scene have arrived in the UK
Whitehall sources say information has emerged that MH17 crash evidence was deliberately tampered with, as the plane's black boxes arrive in the UK.
The sources said this included moving bodies and scattering the parts of other aircraft among the wreckage of the downed Malaysia Airlines plane.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch in Farnborough, Hampshire, has received the flight recorders for analysis.
All 298 people were killed in the crash in eastern Ukraine on 17 July.
They included 10 Britons on the flight from Amsterdam.
Missile launch
Whitehall sources also told the BBC that pro-Russian rebels are believed to have discussed plans to hand MH17's two black box flight recorders over to Russia.
It is understood that some of these conversations were intercepted by Ukrainian intelligence but the information is considered nevertheless to be "very persuasive".
Intelligence has also been obtained which strongly indicates that the plane was shot down by an SA-11 BUK missile launched from a separatist-held area.
British accident investigators will attempt to retrieve data from the recorders following a request by authorities in the Netherlands who are leading the investigation.
Western leaders have accused Russia of arming separatist rebels in Ukraine, and believe the rebels shot down the Boeing 777-200 airliner with a ground-to-air missile.
But Russia has suggested Ukrainian government forces are to blame.
It comes as a group of MPs criticised the fact that UK licences to export arms to Russia had remained in place, despite the conflict in Ukraine.
Downing Street said the UK had not sold arms to Russia since March.
The UK and Dutch flags have been flown at half mast in Downing Street in memory of those who lost their lives.
What are black boxes?
They are two devices - neither of them black - which are designed to survive a crash.
The flight data recorder records operating information from the plane's systems, storing a range of information such as altitude, airspeed, engine power and the pilot's use of the controls.
The cockpit voice recorder, as its name suggests, records sound in the cockpit and can be vital in determining what happened to a crashed aircraft.
Dutch investigators
The black boxes have been transported to the UK after pro-Russian rebels handed them to Malaysian officials this week.
A spokesman for the Department for Transport said data from the two devices would be downloaded and sent back to Dutch investigators.
One of the boxes records technical information on the performance of the aircraft and the other takes down sounds such as pilots' voices and, potentially, an explosion.
Depending on damage to the black boxes the process should take about two days, the spokesman said.
Jonathan Sumberg, BBC transport reporter, said the British Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) was one of two "replay units" in Europe with the necessary equipment to listen to the cockpit voice recorder.
The first planes carrying victims' bodies left Kharkiv airport in Ukraine
A total of 200 bodies have so far been accounted for out of 298 victims
BBC reporter Theo Leggett said the black boxes would be taken to a sealed room at the AAIB headquarters in Farnborough where the data would be downloaded.
He said the flight recorder could potentially confirm whether the plane had been hit by a missile.
However, he said information from the cockpit voice recorder could be "relatively limited" as the impact of the explosion "would have occurred pretty much without warning".
Former aircraft accident investigator Tony Cable also told the BBC it was unclear how much information would be recovered from the flight recorders.
"The cockpit voice recorder could conceivably record the sound of shrapnel hitting the aircraft from the missile, which is assumed to be the cause, possibly followed by the sound of the warhead then exploding," he said.
'Commercial use'
The first planes carrying victims' bodies from the crash site arrived in the Netherlands, where experts will begin identifying them, amid a national day of mourning.
Meanwhile, MPs have been seeking urgent clarification on UK licences to export arms to Russia.
The cross-party Commons Committees on Arms Export Controls said permits covering the sale of sniper rifles, components for air-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft guns, rocket launchers and combat helicopters remained in force.
A total of 251 licences worth at least £132m remained in force, while 31 licences had been halted or suspended, it said.
The government said it was keeping all licences under review and the majority of licences that remained in place were for "commercial use".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28439862
MH17 plane crash: Evidence 'was tampered with'
Black box flight recorders from the crash scene have arrived in the UK
Whitehall sources say information has emerged that MH17 crash evidence was deliberately tampered with, as the plane's black boxes arrive in the UK.
The sources said this included moving bodies and scattering the parts of other aircraft among the wreckage of the downed Malaysia Airlines plane.
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch in Farnborough, Hampshire, has received the flight recorders for analysis.
All 298 people were killed in the crash in eastern Ukraine on 17 July.
They included 10 Britons on the flight from Amsterdam.
Missile launch
Whitehall sources also told the BBC that pro-Russian rebels are believed to have discussed plans to hand MH17's two black box flight recorders over to Russia.
It is understood that some of these conversations were intercepted by Ukrainian intelligence but the information is considered nevertheless to be "very persuasive".
Intelligence has also been obtained which strongly indicates that the plane was shot down by an SA-11 BUK missile launched from a separatist-held area.
British accident investigators will attempt to retrieve data from the recorders following a request by authorities in the Netherlands who are leading the investigation.
Western leaders have accused Russia of arming separatist rebels in Ukraine, and believe the rebels shot down the Boeing 777-200 airliner with a ground-to-air missile.
But Russia has suggested Ukrainian government forces are to blame.
It comes as a group of MPs criticised the fact that UK licences to export arms to Russia had remained in place, despite the conflict in Ukraine.
Downing Street said the UK had not sold arms to Russia since March.
The UK and Dutch flags have been flown at half mast in Downing Street in memory of those who lost their lives.
What are black boxes?
They are two devices - neither of them black - which are designed to survive a crash.
The flight data recorder records operating information from the plane's systems, storing a range of information such as altitude, airspeed, engine power and the pilot's use of the controls.
The cockpit voice recorder, as its name suggests, records sound in the cockpit and can be vital in determining what happened to a crashed aircraft.
Dutch investigators
The black boxes have been transported to the UK after pro-Russian rebels handed them to Malaysian officials this week.
A spokesman for the Department for Transport said data from the two devices would be downloaded and sent back to Dutch investigators.
One of the boxes records technical information on the performance of the aircraft and the other takes down sounds such as pilots' voices and, potentially, an explosion.
Depending on damage to the black boxes the process should take about two days, the spokesman said.
Jonathan Sumberg, BBC transport reporter, said the British Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) was one of two "replay units" in Europe with the necessary equipment to listen to the cockpit voice recorder.
The first planes carrying victims' bodies left Kharkiv airport in Ukraine
A total of 200 bodies have so far been accounted for out of 298 victims
BBC reporter Theo Leggett said the black boxes would be taken to a sealed room at the AAIB headquarters in Farnborough where the data would be downloaded.
He said the flight recorder could potentially confirm whether the plane had been hit by a missile.
However, he said information from the cockpit voice recorder could be "relatively limited" as the impact of the explosion "would have occurred pretty much without warning".
Former aircraft accident investigator Tony Cable also told the BBC it was unclear how much information would be recovered from the flight recorders.
"The cockpit voice recorder could conceivably record the sound of shrapnel hitting the aircraft from the missile, which is assumed to be the cause, possibly followed by the sound of the warhead then exploding," he said.
'Commercial use'
The first planes carrying victims' bodies from the crash site arrived in the Netherlands, where experts will begin identifying them, amid a national day of mourning.
Meanwhile, MPs have been seeking urgent clarification on UK licences to export arms to Russia.
The cross-party Commons Committees on Arms Export Controls said permits covering the sale of sniper rifles, components for air-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft guns, rocket launchers and combat helicopters remained in force.
A total of 251 licences worth at least £132m remained in force, while 31 licences had been halted or suspended, it said.
The government said it was keeping all licences under review and the majority of licences that remained in place were for "commercial use".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28439862
Re: 777 Malaysian diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Ru
perché non credo ai giornalisti che scrivono da casa senza sapere cosa succede sul posto? non mi riferisco all' incidente ma alla guerra in UA.
se poi in generale ci riferiamo a fatti aeronautici sai benissimo le vaccate che scrivono
Oppure se ritieni che Vice e NYT siano controllati dal Cremlino allora parliamone perché allora è il caso di smettere di seguirli da parte mia
no scusa spiegami
perché non credo ai giornalisti che scrivono da casa senza sapere cosa succede sul posto? non mi riferisco all' incidente ma alla guerra in UA.
se poi in generale ci riferiamo a fatti aeronautici sai benissimo le vaccate che scrivono
Oppure se ritieni che Vice e NYT siano controllati dal Cremlino allora parliamone perché allora è il caso di smettere di seguirli da parte mia
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Questa foto, da sola, sintetizza lo schifo di questa faccenda. Onori militari alle vittime, usate come strumenti di propaganda contro il nemico.
mauro.
Bannato
- 26 Maggio 2010
- 4,548
- 0
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Penosamente vero! E c'ero cascato!!
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Cerimonia simile ad Amsterdam
http://www.corriere.it/foto-gallery...pi-127ee06a-0f4d-11e4-a021-a738f627e91c.shtml
Messaggio chiarissimo.
Cerimonia simile ad Amsterdam
http://www.corriere.it/foto-gallery...pi-127ee06a-0f4d-11e4-a021-a738f627e91c.shtml
Messaggio chiarissimo.
Vortigern
Utente Registrato
- 10 Ottobre 2013
- 1,210
- 200
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Il sospetto che potrebbero essere stati magari gli Ucraini.....non sfiora minimamente.
Certo è che morire in questa maniera.....è come morire due volte.......e la terza non credo che tarderà a venire, non appena tutti i siti "dietrologici" e "complottisti" inizieranno a lavorare sui dettagli....(del tipo "come mai non c'erano passeggeri USA/Israeliani/Russi/Cinesi a Bordo?".....oppure giù con la presenza di "imprecisati aerei Militari nelle vicinanze" o con la storiella del "Putin passava di là pochi minuti prima etc.etc.").
Sbaglierò.....ma in qualche segreteria di stato/ministero degli esteri quest'avvenimento sarà stato salutato con grande gioia...
Uno schifo...per l'appunto.
Non mi stupisce. Mi trovo negli USA e, praticamente dagli istanti successivi alla tragedia, tutti media sono stati chiarissimi sul fatto di CHI dovesse essere considerato il vero responsabile della tragedia.
Il sospetto che potrebbero essere stati magari gli Ucraini.....non sfiora minimamente.
Certo è che morire in questa maniera.....è come morire due volte.......e la terza non credo che tarderà a venire, non appena tutti i siti "dietrologici" e "complottisti" inizieranno a lavorare sui dettagli....(del tipo "come mai non c'erano passeggeri USA/Israeliani/Russi/Cinesi a Bordo?".....oppure giù con la presenza di "imprecisati aerei Militari nelle vicinanze" o con la storiella del "Putin passava di là pochi minuti prima etc.etc.").
Sbaglierò.....ma in qualche segreteria di stato/ministero degli esteri quest'avvenimento sarà stato salutato con grande gioia...
Uno schifo...per l'appunto.
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Beh, forse sei già arrivato tu alla terza morte delle vittime ... Pensare che qualcuno possa gioire di questo è davvero orribile.
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Orribile si, ma non lontano dalla realtà.
Vortigern
Utente Registrato
- 10 Ottobre 2013
- 1,210
- 200
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Nessuna dietrologia o teorie balzane, quindi, ma tutto sotto la luce dei riflettori.
Mi limito ad osservare le dichiarazioni ed i comportamenti di alcune delle parti coinvolte....e non posso fare a meno di pensare quello che ho già scritto.
Nessuna dietrologia o teorie balzane, quindi, ma tutto sotto la luce dei riflettori.
totocrista
Utente Registrato
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Tristezza....
http://www.rainews.it/dl/rainews/ar...day-332f47cd-9e5f-4d9e-9562-08831cd44177.html
Inviato dal mio Nexus 7 con Tapatalk 4
Tristezza....
http://www.rainews.it/dl/rainews/ar...day-332f47cd-9e5f-4d9e-9562-08831cd44177.html
Inviato dal mio Nexus 7 con Tapatalk 4
East End Ave
Utente Registrato
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
Mentre te, ed altri, la vostra idea ve la siete gia' fatta; meno male che era stato chiesto di evitare opinioni di questo tipo, OT e che nulla hanno a che fare con l'aviazione!
Mentre te, ed altri, la vostra idea ve la siete gia' fatta; meno male che era stato chiesto di evitare opinioni di questo tipo, OT e che nulla hanno a che fare con l'aviazione!
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
The Dutch Safety Board has issued this statement:
The Dutch Safety Board took over formal responsibility for the air crash investigation from Ukraine yesterday evening (July 22). The two black boxes have since arrived in the United Kingdom, where they are currently being read out and analyzed by a team of international specialists. The on-site investigation in Ukraine is currently in full swing. Although investigators still do not have safe access to the crash site, work to gather and analyse data from various sources is underway in bothKiev and the Netherlands.
The first priorities will be to gather information from the crash site, analyse the black boxes and coordinate the international team. Ultimately, the air crash investigation should offer victims families and the international community a clear and comprehensive overview of the causes and course of the crash.
With the Dutch Safety Board now heading the investigation, the international investigation team will have more freedom to go about its tasks unhindered. The Dutch Safety Board is also responsible for coordinating all participating investigators and investigation teams from the countries involved (Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, Germany, the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia) and the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO). The international team currently consists of 24 investigators. A total of four Dutch Safety Board investigators are currently operating inUkraine.
Black boxes
On Tuesday evening (July 22) the two recorders arrived in Kiev from Kharkiv and were handed over to the Dutch Safety Board. They were then shipped by air to theUnited Kingdom, where an international team of specialists is working on the read-out and analysis of the data stored in the recorders. As a part of this effort, the team will also assess whether the black boxes may have been manipulated. The black boxes are expected to provide information relevant to this investigation. The analysis of black box data may take several weeks
On-site investigation
At the time of writing, the investigators have not yet been able to visit the site of the crash and conduct their investigation under safe conditions. In order to conduct an effective investigation, the investigators must have the opportunity to move around the entire investigation site freely, investigate materials and traces from up close and secure them for further study where necessary. At present, the investigators’ safety has not been guaranteed. The Dutch Safety Board and other parties involved are continually working to gain access to the accident site, and are working with other parties to organise effective security so that the investigators can do their work under controlled and safe conditions. Despite the fact that evidence and traces have been damaged or lost, the Dutch Safety Board expects it will be able to gather sufficient relevant information from the crash site.
Over the past few days, investigators have been working on the investigation in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev and in the Netherlands on the basis of available film and photo materials and other sources of information.
Investigation results
All information gathered as a part of this international investigation will be submitted to the Dutch Safety Board. The Dutch Safety Board will subsequently analyse this information, which will serve as the basis for a report and – where necessary – relevant recommendations. Other investigators or investigation boards will support this process and comment on the draft investigation report and its conclusions. The Dutch Safety Board will have the final say as regards the contents and timing of all publications. If the investigation shows evidence of any criminal or terrorist activities, the information will subsequently be submitted to the relevant authorities in accordance with applicable regulations. The Dutch Safety Board’s investigation will focus on ascertaining facts, rather than apportioning blame.
In addition to the international accident investigation, the Dutch Safety Board is also conducting two other independent investigations: an investigation into the decision-making process with regard to flight routes and an investigation into the availability of passenger lists. These investigation reports are expected to be published ahead of the main accident report.
Photo Credit: ANP. The tail section of downed 9M-MRD.
The Dutch Safety Board has issued this statement:
The Dutch Safety Board took over formal responsibility for the air crash investigation from Ukraine yesterday evening (July 22). The two black boxes have since arrived in the United Kingdom, where they are currently being read out and analyzed by a team of international specialists. The on-site investigation in Ukraine is currently in full swing. Although investigators still do not have safe access to the crash site, work to gather and analyse data from various sources is underway in bothKiev and the Netherlands.
The first priorities will be to gather information from the crash site, analyse the black boxes and coordinate the international team. Ultimately, the air crash investigation should offer victims families and the international community a clear and comprehensive overview of the causes and course of the crash.
With the Dutch Safety Board now heading the investigation, the international investigation team will have more freedom to go about its tasks unhindered. The Dutch Safety Board is also responsible for coordinating all participating investigators and investigation teams from the countries involved (Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, Germany, the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia) and the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO). The international team currently consists of 24 investigators. A total of four Dutch Safety Board investigators are currently operating inUkraine.
Black boxes
On Tuesday evening (July 22) the two recorders arrived in Kiev from Kharkiv and were handed over to the Dutch Safety Board. They were then shipped by air to theUnited Kingdom, where an international team of specialists is working on the read-out and analysis of the data stored in the recorders. As a part of this effort, the team will also assess whether the black boxes may have been manipulated. The black boxes are expected to provide information relevant to this investigation. The analysis of black box data may take several weeks
On-site investigation
At the time of writing, the investigators have not yet been able to visit the site of the crash and conduct their investigation under safe conditions. In order to conduct an effective investigation, the investigators must have the opportunity to move around the entire investigation site freely, investigate materials and traces from up close and secure them for further study where necessary. At present, the investigators’ safety has not been guaranteed. The Dutch Safety Board and other parties involved are continually working to gain access to the accident site, and are working with other parties to organise effective security so that the investigators can do their work under controlled and safe conditions. Despite the fact that evidence and traces have been damaged or lost, the Dutch Safety Board expects it will be able to gather sufficient relevant information from the crash site.
Over the past few days, investigators have been working on the investigation in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev and in the Netherlands on the basis of available film and photo materials and other sources of information.
Investigation results
All information gathered as a part of this international investigation will be submitted to the Dutch Safety Board. The Dutch Safety Board will subsequently analyse this information, which will serve as the basis for a report and – where necessary – relevant recommendations. Other investigators or investigation boards will support this process and comment on the draft investigation report and its conclusions. The Dutch Safety Board will have the final say as regards the contents and timing of all publications. If the investigation shows evidence of any criminal or terrorist activities, the information will subsequently be submitted to the relevant authorities in accordance with applicable regulations. The Dutch Safety Board’s investigation will focus on ascertaining facts, rather than apportioning blame.
In addition to the international accident investigation, the Dutch Safety Board is also conducting two other independent investigations: an investigation into the decision-making process with regard to flight routes and an investigation into the availability of passenger lists. These investigation reports are expected to be published ahead of the main accident report.
Photo Credit: ANP. The tail section of downed 9M-MRD.
East End Ave
Utente Registrato
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
@BRALUCA: At the time of writing, the investigators have not yet been able to visit the site of the crash and conduct their investigation under safe conditions. In order to conduct an effective investigation, the investigators must have the opportunity to move around the entire investigation site freely, investigate materials and traces from up close and secure them for further study where necessary. At present, the investigators’ safety has not been guaranteed. The Dutch Safety Board and other parties involved are continually working to gain access to the accident site, and are working with other parties to organise effective security so that the investigators can do their work under controlled and safe conditions. Despite the fact that evidence and traces have been damaged or lost, the Dutch Safety Board expects it will be able to gather sufficient relevant information from the crash site
non aggiungo altro.
S-T-R-A-Q-U-O-T-O !
@BRALUCA: At the time of writing, the investigators have not yet been able to visit the site of the crash and conduct their investigation under safe conditions. In order to conduct an effective investigation, the investigators must have the opportunity to move around the entire investigation site freely, investigate materials and traces from up close and secure them for further study where necessary. At present, the investigators’ safety has not been guaranteed. The Dutch Safety Board and other parties involved are continually working to gain access to the accident site, and are working with other parties to organise effective security so that the investigators can do their work under controlled and safe conditions. Despite the fact that evidence and traces have been damaged or lost, the Dutch Safety Board expects it will be able to gather sufficient relevant information from the crash site
non aggiungo altro.
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
non mi capacito di come chi deve occuparsi di sicurezza dei voli e di assistenza alla navigazione aerea non abbia anche solo immaginato che esisteva il rischio che un missile fosse indirizzato, per colpa o dolo poco cambia in termini di sicurezza, verso un aereo civile.
lo stesso vale per le altre zone di guerra dove si usano armi pesanti.
e soprattutto mi chiedo a cosa servano gli apparati militari e di intelligence, se non ad informare le autorità civili aeronautiche di quali sono le zone dove vengono sparati missili ad alta quota..... sarebbe bastata una mail: caro eurocontrol e cari enti nazionali, non fate sorvolare le seguenti zone, pericolo missili.
condivido pienamente.
non mi capacito di come chi deve occuparsi di sicurezza dei voli e di assistenza alla navigazione aerea non abbia anche solo immaginato che esisteva il rischio che un missile fosse indirizzato, per colpa o dolo poco cambia in termini di sicurezza, verso un aereo civile.
lo stesso vale per le altre zone di guerra dove si usano armi pesanti.
e soprattutto mi chiedo a cosa servano gli apparati militari e di intelligence, se non ad informare le autorità civili aeronautiche di quali sono le zone dove vengono sparati missili ad alta quota..... sarebbe bastata una mail: caro eurocontrol e cari enti nazionali, non fate sorvolare le seguenti zone, pericolo missili.
aless
Moderatore
- 12 Settembre 2006
- 11,462
- 72
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
(Finalmente un) intervento interessante. Grazie.
Ultima modifica:
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
+1
Re: 777 Malaysia diretto a Kuala Lumpur da AMS cade in Ucraina al confine con la Rus
credo tutti possiamo concordare
pongo solo un quesito: chi deve garantire la sicurezza nel sito per gli investigatori? C'è la guerra civile, non mi sembra così facile
non ho motivo di dubitare quanto scritto
credo tutti possiamo concordare
pongo solo un quesito: chi deve garantire la sicurezza nel sito per gli investigatori? C'è la guerra civile, non mi sembra così facile