Quando ho visto il paragone con il 320 ho dovuto raccogliere le...
Paragona mele e pollo fritto.
Paragona mele e pollo fritto.
Il primo Airbus A330neo entra nella flotta di ITA Airways
- Autore Discussione nofly
- Data d'inizio
East End Ave
Utente Registrato
Pochi comunque, fonte Airbus:
“There are 1,798 firm orders for all versions of the Airbus A330; 1,479 for the A330ceo (current engine option) and a further 319 for the A330neo (new engine option), of which a total of 1,470 A330ceo and 134 A330neos have been delivered as of end of June 2024”.
Anche in questo caso mi sfugge quali fossero le previsioni di vendita
Alla fine ad Airbus è costato poco, permette di continuare a stare sul mercato con 2 modelli di WB offrendo delle opzioni per chi non ha necessità di un A350.
Alcuni anni fa Ed Bastian ordinando l'A339 disse che per certi tipi di rotte (ad esempio sull'Atlantico) l'A339 era una macchina conveniente rispetto all'A359 ed infatti la ordinarono.
East End Ave
Utente Registrato
Pazienza, a me sembrano invece comunque pochi per un “new engine option” che, con tutta evidenza, non può non aver richiesto un investimento ingente.
Semmai venissi in possesso delle previsioni anno su anno sarà mia cura fartele pervenire.
Ingenti investimenti sono per una nuova linea, alla fine hanno comunque diversi anni di ordini e intanto hanno una macchina che si sta rivelando competitiva nel rapporto prezzo/prestazioni. Considera inoltre che 787 e 350 (il 777 intanto è fermo) hanno linee piene e alla fine l'A339 è stata una buona valvola di sfogo per chi voleva macchine nuove, comunque più efficienti ma già mature per poter re-iniziare a crescere.
Ne parlavo con amici in ITA e sono decisamente contenti delle performance dell'A339. Anche DL risulta molto soddisfatta degli A339.
East End Ave
Utente Registrato
Hold your horses; nessuno ha detto che i clienti non ne siano soddisfatti, ma che gli ordini del neo rispetto al ceo sono minimali, almeno questo diceva l’articolo postato.
quanti poi ne volesse piazzare Airbus non è dato al momento disponibile.
Beh, mi pare abbiano scoperto l'acqua calda, il CEO era una macchina nuova che si è scontrata per decenni con il B767 che era più vecchio e ha usufruito dell'aumento vertiginoso del lungo raggio. Il NEO è una soluzione a basso costo per Airbus per mantenere il produzione dandone nuova competitività una macchina che si trovava a competere con Il B787 e A350 e cioè macchine nuove e di generazione successiva quindi ben più efficienti. Sicuramente hanno dei target, ma dubito che per Airbus sia un bagno di sangue proprio perché permette di ricavare valore da un progetto ammortizzato e mantenere in produzione una linea che offre macchine aggiuntive rispetto al 350 che è saturo per anni e anni.
East End Ave
Utente Registrato
Nessuno ha neppure mai detto che sia “un bagno di sangue”…cerchiamo di argomentare restando attinenti alle parole scritte , altrimenti disquisiamo sul nulla!
Rischia di fare la fine del 767-400… alla fine ha attirato solo due compagnie che tra l’altro avevano spinto Boeing a sviluppare la versione -400. Specialmente Delta che doveva sostituire la flotta Lockheed Tristar.
Luca Paglia
Utente Registrato
- 22 Gennaio 2015
- 435
- 52
IMHO, comunque in generale la attuale flotta di A330 ceo non credo sia così vecchia da necessitare un cambio 1:1 con un A330 neo. E si, una parte di questi ceo verrà sostituita da 350 o 787, ma tutti gli altri? Credo che sul lungo termine (non 4/5 anni) ma direi 10 da oggi, Airbus avrà a disposizione due macchine già sviluppate e ammortizzate abbondantemente per sostituire le flotte esistenti. Che poi il neo è nato anche per questo, sostituire (almeno in parte) gli attuali A330-200/300.
Ps avevo visto un video (forse di Simple Flying) relativo proprio a questo aspetto, con qualche numero a giustificare il ragionamento.
Ps avevo visto un video (forse di Simple Flying) relativo proprio a questo aspetto, con qualche numero a giustificare il ragionamento.
Il 330neo ha comunque oltre 300 ordini, con una percentuale elevata in mano a lessor vari, che ci guadagneranno sicuramente grazie ai ritardi dei 787 e 777, la saturazione del 350 e l'uscita di scena dei robi più grandi (380 e 747). Non fosse stato per Air Asia X, che ha annullato una marea di ordini, sarebbe stata dura trovare slot anche per il 330.
Oltre ad aver tenuto in piedi la linea di produzione, Airbus mantiene una piattaforma per un possibile, nuovo 330 cargo: il 338 è servito a poco fino a ora, ma come cargo potrebbe in futuro raccattare qualche ordine. Molto dipenderà dall'andazzo delle consegne di wide body nuovi: se il 787 e il 777 la smetteranno di singhiozzare, potranno finalmente riprendere a ritmo accelerato i pensionamenti di 767 e 330ceo da convertire in cargo. Se, invece, i ritardi continueranno ancora a lungo, potrebbero optare per un 330F nuovo tanti vettori.
L'unica pressione negativa per il 330neo viene forse dal 321XLR ma non è che la produzione di quelli sia tale da cannibalizzare davvero il mercato dei wide body prima di vari anni (anche perché ci sono prima da sostituire vagonate di 757).
Oltre ad aver tenuto in piedi la linea di produzione, Airbus mantiene una piattaforma per un possibile, nuovo 330 cargo: il 338 è servito a poco fino a ora, ma come cargo potrebbe in futuro raccattare qualche ordine. Molto dipenderà dall'andazzo delle consegne di wide body nuovi: se il 787 e il 777 la smetteranno di singhiozzare, potranno finalmente riprendere a ritmo accelerato i pensionamenti di 767 e 330ceo da convertire in cargo. Se, invece, i ritardi continueranno ancora a lungo, potrebbero optare per un 330F nuovo tanti vettori.
L'unica pressione negativa per il 330neo viene forse dal 321XLR ma non è che la produzione di quelli sia tale da cannibalizzare davvero il mercato dei wide body prima di vari anni (anche perché ci sono prima da sostituire vagonate di 757).
East End Ave
Utente Registrato
Articolo datato, ma che approfondisce la questione e, in sostanza, confermava gia' allora il trend:
Three Big Snubs: Why Don't Airlines Want The Airbus A330neo?
By Chris Loh
Published Oct 15, 2023
SUMMARY
This has been the case with some airlines, but recent significant orders are proving that A330neos aren't guaranteed to be replacements for the "current engine option" A330ceos. What's going on? And is there still a chance that things could change?
Three big snubs
Just in the past few months, major airlines that have long-operated A330ceos have placed large orders for new aircraft. Absent from their agreements has been the A330neo. So, who are we talking about?
But these three examples are only the most recent. Months earlier, Saudia placed a significant order for dozens of 787s despite already operating a fleet of over 30 A330-300s. Additionally, EVA Air, operator of 12 A330ceos, ordered five Dreamliners in March.
A330neo sales are still well below A330ceo
By now, it's fairly well-known that the Airbus A330-800 remains an unpopular aircraft. Airbus data from September 2023 indicates this variant has orders for just 12 airframes. On the plus side, the figure had been stuck at 11 for a while and has only changed in recent times with a single order from a customer in the "Governments; Executive and private Jets" category.
The A330-900 has been more popular, but it's still nowhere near the level achieved by its predecessor, the A330-300. Airbus data shows that 664 A330-200s were ordered, along with 784 -300s. Actual deliveries after swaps and cancelations would see 655 -200s and 776 -300s. Again, this is a far cry from the 12 -800s and 311 -900s ordered.
TAP Air Portugal and Delta Air Lines have been some of the larger operators of the A330-900, with the program getting a decent boost from Avolon at the start of September, firming a deal for 20 airframes. The 28 -900s ordered by Iran Air are likely to be lost to history as sanctions will remain for some time.
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What's going on?
From the examples listed above, it really does feel like airlines simply prefer the operating economics of the Boeing 787-9 (or -10 in some cases) more than the A330-900.
Not wanting to get into a complete comparison between Airbus and Boeing jets in this size category, but it's interesting to see how the jets compare. The 787-9's range is superior at 14,010 km (7,565 NM), compared with the A330-900's 13,334 km (7,200 NM). At their upper-most limits, depending on emergency exit configurations,
EASA Type Certificate Data Sheet information indicates that the A330-900 allows for up to 440 passengers, while it's 420 for the 787-9. The same EASA documentation shows that the 787-9 can hold 126,356 liters of usable fuel while it's 139,090 liters for the A330-900.
Capacities are somewhat comparable, while the maximum range will be less of an issue for short and medium-haul operations. Ultimately, however, while the 787-9 might have the capacity for fewer passengers, it also appears to have the ability to fly further while carrying less fuel - something that airlines would obviously value quite highly.
Is there still hope?
With so many A330ceo operators still out there, it's conceivable that there is still hope for more A330neo orders. However, the list of major customers is slowly falling as they side with the 787. Qatar Airways, Ethiopian Airlines, and Emirates (which canceled its A330-900 order), just to name a few, have chosen a combination of the 787 and A350.
The Chinese market might be a possibility as the country's major carriers operate relatively young fleets of A330ceos. However, their age and the timing of their retirements might just allow for the CR929 to be the ideal homegrown option. Aeroflot operates 12 A330-300s, but current geopolitics won't allow for Western aircraft for the foreseeable future. Turkish Airlines, an operator of nearly 60 A330ceos, will be placing a massive aircraft order soon. However, the carrier has been growing its fleet of Boeing 787s and may continue on a trajectory similar to Qatar Airways.
Perhaps the 787's success might paradoxically result in success for the A330-900 in the future. If Boeing's backlog grows to an unbearable level, airlines might just opt to get in line for the A330neo, just so they can provide capacity and fly passengers sooner rather than later.
But what do you think about the A330neo program and its success (or lack thereof)? Are you optimistic that things could change? Share your thoughts by leaving a comment down below.
Sources: Planespotters.net, AviatorJoe.net, EASA
Sto caricando...
simpleflying.com
Three Big Snubs: Why Don't Airlines Want The Airbus A330neo?
By Chris Loh
Published Oct 15, 2023
SUMMARY
- Recent major airlines have placed large orders for new aircraft, excluding the A330neo.
- The A330neo sales are still significantly lower than the A330ceo, indicating a lack of popularity for the updated aircraft.
- Although there is still hope for more A330neo orders, major customers are increasingly choosing the 787 or A350.
This has been the case with some airlines, but recent significant orders are proving that A330neos aren't guaranteed to be replacements for the "current engine option" A330ceos. What's going on? And is there still a chance that things could change?
Three big snubs
Just in the past few months, major airlines that have long-operated A330ceos have placed large orders for new aircraft. Absent from their agreements has been the A330neo. So, who are we talking about?
- At the end of August, we reported that Australian flag carrier Qantas had placed firm orders for Airbus A350 and Boeing 787 aircraft. The goal of the order: To eventually replace the fleet of A330 and A380 jets. Qantas currently has a fleet of 16 A330-200s and 10 -300s. The average age of all variants combined is approaching 17 years. Four A330-200s have already left the fleet.
- At the end of September, Air Canada placed a firm order for 18 Boeing 787-10 aircraft and added the option for 12 more. This significant order comes two years after it quietly decided to add three more 787-9s to the fleet. The airline currently has 18 A330-300s, with one used airframe to be added in the near future. The average age of the active A330-300s is 17-and-a-half years at the time of publication.
- And finally, around the same time as Air Canada's order, Air France-KLM Group announced that it would be modernizing its fleet with the purchase of 50 Airbus A350s with options for 40 more. Both Air France and KLM operate A330ceos but have already been moving in the direction of the Boeing 787 when it comes to this size of aircraft. The latest order again leaves out the A330neo.
But these three examples are only the most recent. Months earlier, Saudia placed a significant order for dozens of 787s despite already operating a fleet of over 30 A330-300s. Additionally, EVA Air, operator of 12 A330ceos, ordered five Dreamliners in March.
A330neo sales are still well below A330ceo
By now, it's fairly well-known that the Airbus A330-800 remains an unpopular aircraft. Airbus data from September 2023 indicates this variant has orders for just 12 airframes. On the plus side, the figure had been stuck at 11 for a while and has only changed in recent times with a single order from a customer in the "Governments; Executive and private Jets" category.
The A330-900 has been more popular, but it's still nowhere near the level achieved by its predecessor, the A330-300. Airbus data shows that 664 A330-200s were ordered, along with 784 -300s. Actual deliveries after swaps and cancelations would see 655 -200s and 776 -300s. Again, this is a far cry from the 12 -800s and 311 -900s ordered.
TAP Air Portugal and Delta Air Lines have been some of the larger operators of the A330-900, with the program getting a decent boost from Avolon at the start of September, firming a deal for 20 airframes. The 28 -900s ordered by Iran Air are likely to be lost to history as sanctions will remain for some time.
Get the latest aviation news straight to your inbox: Sign up for our newsletters today.
What's going on?
From the examples listed above, it really does feel like airlines simply prefer the operating economics of the Boeing 787-9 (or -10 in some cases) more than the A330-900.
Not wanting to get into a complete comparison between Airbus and Boeing jets in this size category, but it's interesting to see how the jets compare. The 787-9's range is superior at 14,010 km (7,565 NM), compared with the A330-900's 13,334 km (7,200 NM). At their upper-most limits, depending on emergency exit configurations,
EASA Type Certificate Data Sheet information indicates that the A330-900 allows for up to 440 passengers, while it's 420 for the 787-9. The same EASA documentation shows that the 787-9 can hold 126,356 liters of usable fuel while it's 139,090 liters for the A330-900.
Capacities are somewhat comparable, while the maximum range will be less of an issue for short and medium-haul operations. Ultimately, however, while the 787-9 might have the capacity for fewer passengers, it also appears to have the ability to fly further while carrying less fuel - something that airlines would obviously value quite highly.
Is there still hope?
With so many A330ceo operators still out there, it's conceivable that there is still hope for more A330neo orders. However, the list of major customers is slowly falling as they side with the 787. Qatar Airways, Ethiopian Airlines, and Emirates (which canceled its A330-900 order), just to name a few, have chosen a combination of the 787 and A350.
The Chinese market might be a possibility as the country's major carriers operate relatively young fleets of A330ceos. However, their age and the timing of their retirements might just allow for the CR929 to be the ideal homegrown option. Aeroflot operates 12 A330-300s, but current geopolitics won't allow for Western aircraft for the foreseeable future. Turkish Airlines, an operator of nearly 60 A330ceos, will be placing a massive aircraft order soon. However, the carrier has been growing its fleet of Boeing 787s and may continue on a trajectory similar to Qatar Airways.
Perhaps the 787's success might paradoxically result in success for the A330-900 in the future. If Boeing's backlog grows to an unbearable level, airlines might just opt to get in line for the A330neo, just so they can provide capacity and fly passengers sooner rather than later.
But what do you think about the A330neo program and its success (or lack thereof)? Are you optimistic that things could change? Share your thoughts by leaving a comment down below.
Sources: Planespotters.net, AviatorJoe.net, EASA
Intanto Virgin Atlantic ne ordina altri 7.
www.airbus.com
Virgin Atlantic orders seven additional A330neo aircraft to complete fleet transformation
Virgin Atlantic has placed a firm order for seven A330neo aircraft as part of its wider fleet transformation.
www.airbus.com
Inoltre:
Airbus launches A330neo-based MRTT+ as demand booms
Airbus Defence & Space’s next multi-role tanker transport (MRTT) customer will be the first to acquire the capability integrated with the A330-800 airframe, with deliveries expected from late this decade.
Formally launched as the A330 MRTT+ at the Farnborough air show on 23 July, “it is an evolution to meet the market demand”, says Airbus’s head of air power Jean-Brice Dumont.
“This evolution has been looking natural for a while,” he says. “With the Neo version, we can bring the MRTT to the next level of performance.”
Airbus’s MRTT journey can be traced back to 2003, when it started development work on an advanced refuelling boom system, first flown on an A310 testbed in 2007. Launch operator the Royal Australian Air Force introduced the A330-200-based type in 2011.
Switching to the Neo model will deliver multiple benefits to operators, Airbus says. These include increased fuel efficiency thanks to the type’s all-new wing and Rolls-Royce Trent 7000 engines, along with extended range performance.
Maria Angeles Marti, head of the MRTT programme, says the new version will deliver an 8% fuel efficiency improvement over the -200-derived model in current use.
While it will retain the same 111t in-wing fuel capacity as the current model, Marti says the extra efficiency will allow operators “to either refuel more [aircraft], or reach farther” during sorties.
Airbus claims that its MRTT+ will boast a 41% range advantage over the smaller Boeing KC-46A.
“We believe there is a significant market ahead of us,” says Dumont, who identifies demand as coming from the Middle East, Europe, and the Asia-Pacific region. “There are still orders to come, and we see that through the number of discussions we are having with customers, particularly now on the MRTT+.”
Dumont notes that Airbus launched the original A330 MRTT with a sales ambition of 25 units, but that it has to date secured firm commitments for 82, for use by 15 nations. Sixty of the aircraft have been delivered to date, with the global fleet having amassed over 300,000 flying hours.
We have definitely exceeded our expectations,” he says, with Airbus claiming a 90% market share for tanker customers within the last decade, excluding the USA. “It is due to the unrivalled technical performance,” he adds.
Saudi Arabia recently signed a follow-on deal to take four more MRTTs, while Canada is to field nine – including several secondhand examples to be modified following airline service.
“To continue being there, we need to continue improving and innovating,” Marti says of the company’s market position. The MRTT+ will be offered with enhanced connectivity and Airbus’s A3R autonomous boom capability as a baseline standard, and its ambition is to in time expand this to an A4R level “with full control of the [boom refuelling] operation”.
Dumont tells FlightGlobal that Airbus will not need to develop a prototype aircraft to support future certification of the MRTT+, with this activity to be performed using a customer aircraft.
“The level of risk is not such that we would need to go with a prototype or a technology demonstration,” he says.
“We are confident that the wing will have the right behaviour to preserve the performance of the hose and drogue [refuelling pod] operation,” Marti says, with simulation work having already been performed.
Airbus says the A330neo and its earlier model share 95% parts commonality, with MRTT operators also to benefit in areas including training and support.
“We have customers waiting, and customers in a hurry,” Dumont says, adding that the company will need to begin work on an aircraft “rather soon”.
Asked when the new model is likely to enter service, he says: “Nothing is frozen at the moment, but many customers have expectations before the end of the decade. We will launch the aircraft together with a customer agreement.”
www.flightglobal.com
Airbus launches A330neo-based MRTT+ as demand booms
Airbus Defence & Space’s next multi-role tanker transport (MRTT) customer will be the first to acquire the capability integrated with the A330-800 airframe, with deliveries expected from late this decade.
Formally launched as the A330 MRTT+ at the Farnborough air show on 23 July, “it is an evolution to meet the market demand”, says Airbus’s head of air power Jean-Brice Dumont.
“This evolution has been looking natural for a while,” he says. “With the Neo version, we can bring the MRTT to the next level of performance.”
Airbus’s MRTT journey can be traced back to 2003, when it started development work on an advanced refuelling boom system, first flown on an A310 testbed in 2007. Launch operator the Royal Australian Air Force introduced the A330-200-based type in 2011.
Switching to the Neo model will deliver multiple benefits to operators, Airbus says. These include increased fuel efficiency thanks to the type’s all-new wing and Rolls-Royce Trent 7000 engines, along with extended range performance.
Maria Angeles Marti, head of the MRTT programme, says the new version will deliver an 8% fuel efficiency improvement over the -200-derived model in current use.
While it will retain the same 111t in-wing fuel capacity as the current model, Marti says the extra efficiency will allow operators “to either refuel more [aircraft], or reach farther” during sorties.
Airbus claims that its MRTT+ will boast a 41% range advantage over the smaller Boeing KC-46A.
“We believe there is a significant market ahead of us,” says Dumont, who identifies demand as coming from the Middle East, Europe, and the Asia-Pacific region. “There are still orders to come, and we see that through the number of discussions we are having with customers, particularly now on the MRTT+.”
Dumont notes that Airbus launched the original A330 MRTT with a sales ambition of 25 units, but that it has to date secured firm commitments for 82, for use by 15 nations. Sixty of the aircraft have been delivered to date, with the global fleet having amassed over 300,000 flying hours.
We have definitely exceeded our expectations,” he says, with Airbus claiming a 90% market share for tanker customers within the last decade, excluding the USA. “It is due to the unrivalled technical performance,” he adds.
Saudi Arabia recently signed a follow-on deal to take four more MRTTs, while Canada is to field nine – including several secondhand examples to be modified following airline service.
“To continue being there, we need to continue improving and innovating,” Marti says of the company’s market position. The MRTT+ will be offered with enhanced connectivity and Airbus’s A3R autonomous boom capability as a baseline standard, and its ambition is to in time expand this to an A4R level “with full control of the [boom refuelling] operation”.
Dumont tells FlightGlobal that Airbus will not need to develop a prototype aircraft to support future certification of the MRTT+, with this activity to be performed using a customer aircraft.
“The level of risk is not such that we would need to go with a prototype or a technology demonstration,” he says.
“We are confident that the wing will have the right behaviour to preserve the performance of the hose and drogue [refuelling pod] operation,” Marti says, with simulation work having already been performed.
Airbus says the A330neo and its earlier model share 95% parts commonality, with MRTT operators also to benefit in areas including training and support.
“We have customers waiting, and customers in a hurry,” Dumont says, adding that the company will need to begin work on an aircraft “rather soon”.
Asked when the new model is likely to enter service, he says: “Nothing is frozen at the moment, but many customers have expectations before the end of the decade. We will launch the aircraft together with a customer agreement.”
Airbus launches A330neo-based MRTT+ as demand booms
Airbus Defence & Space's next multi-role tanker transport (MRTT) customer will be the first to acquire the capability integrated with the A330-800 airframe, with deliveries expected from late this decade.
www.flightglobal.com
Dettaglio interessante.. l'ala del 330-800 non ha più la predisposizione per il secondo motore, quindi niente ancoraggio "gratis " per il pod di rifornimento ..
Impressionante... penso che nemmeno le case automobilistiche più prestigiose comincino a lavorare su di un modello a tiratura limitata con questi numeri.
Credo che l'industria militare abbia un prezzario a parte: aereo più modifica, più pods, più manutenzione specifica, più impianti vari e il conto si fa bello salato, altro che sconti da Major che ordina 150 esemplari in una botta!
Come una Bugatti placcata oro: con 2 o 3 modelli venduti, il costruttore si rifà degli altri 100 pezzi venduti sottocosto.