Dato che Emirates apprezza molto i 380 forse è una mossa per forzare l'acquisto
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Consegne e notizie sugli A380
- Autore Discussione DusCgn
- Data d'inizio
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EK chiede 10 anni di apertura della linea garantita a fronte di un ordine aggiuntivo, Airbus comunica che se EK non ordina la linea chiude. Sostanzialmente stanno tirando per mettersi d'accordo, vediamo se ci saranno i margini per salvare l'A380 dall'oblio per almeno una decina di anni.
Viking
Utente Registrato
Se serve 1 lo prendo io. Pero' si mettano una mano sul cuore.
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Ti conviene chiedere uno sconto anche per i tagliandi
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Airbus pronta a chiudere a linea A380 se Emirates non dovesse sottoscrivere l’ordine
Airbus ready to phase out A380 if fails to win Emirates deal: sources
PARIS (Reuters) - Airbus is drawing up contingency plans to phase out production of the world’s largest jetliner, the A380 superjumbo, if it fails to win a key order from Dubai’s Emirates, three people familiar with the matter said.
The moment of truth for the slow-selling airliner looms after just 10 years in service and leaves one of Europe’s most visible international symbols hanging by a thread, despite a major airline investment in new cabins unveiled this month.
“If there is no Emirates deal, Airbus will start the process of ending A380 production,” a person briefed on the plans said. A supplier added such a move was logical due to weak demand.
Airbus and Emirates declined to comment. Airbus also declined to say how many people work on the project.
Any shutdown is expected to be gradual, allowing Airbus to produce orders it has in hand, mainly from Emirates.
It has enough orders to last until early next decade at current production rates, according to a Reuters analysis.
The A380 was developed at a cost of 11 billion euros to carry some 500 people and challenge the reign of the Boeing 747.
But demand for these four-engined goliaths has fallen as airlines choose smaller twin-engined models, which are easier to fill and cheaper to maintain.
Emirates, however, has been a strong believer in the A380 and is easily the largest customer with total orders of 142 aircraft, of which it has taken just over 100.
Talks between Airbus and Emirates over a new order for 36 superjumbos worth $16 billion broke down at the Dubai Airshow last month. Negotiations are said to have resumed, but there are no visible signs that a deal is imminent.
Although airlines such as British Airways have expressed interest in the A380, Airbus is reluctant to keep factories open without the certainty that a bulk Emirates order would provide.
Emirates, for its part, wants a guarantee that Airbus will keep production going for a decade to protect its investment.
A decision to cancel would mark a rupture between Airbus and one of its largest customers and tie Emirates’ future growth to recent Boeing orders. European sources say that reflects growing American influence in the Gulf under President Donald Trump, but U.S. and UAE industry sources deny politics are involved.
There are also potential hurdles to a deal over engine choices and after-sales support.
SAFETY NET
Yet if talks succeed, European sources say there is a glimmer of hope for the double-deck jet, which Airbus says will become more popular with airlines due to congestion.
Singapore Airlines, which first introduced the A380 to passengers in 2007, showcased an $850 million cabin re-design this month and expressed confidence in the model’s future.
Airbus hopes to use an Emirates order to stabilise output and establish a safety net from which to attract A380 sales to other carriers, but has ruled out trying to do this the other way round, industry sources said.
As of the end of November, Airbus had won orders for 317 A380s and delivered 221, leaving 96 unfilled orders.
But based on airlines’ intentions or finances, 47 of those are unlikely to be delivered, according to industry sources, which halves the number of jets in play.
Airbus needs to sell at least another 30 to keep lines open for 10 years and possibly more to justify the price concessions likely to be demanded by any new buyers.
To bridge the gap, Airbus plans to cut output to six a year beyond 2019, from 12 in 2018 and 8 in 2019, even if it means producing at a loss, Reuters recently reported.
Chief Operating Officer Fabrice Bregier confirmed this month Airbus was looking at cutting output to 6-7 a year.
If Airbus does decide to wind down production, some believe Emirates will ask Airbus to deliver the remaining 41 it has on order and then keep most A380s in service as long as possible.
Even so, some A380s are likely to be heading for scrap.
Reuters
Airbus ready to phase out A380 if fails to win Emirates deal: sources
PARIS (Reuters) - Airbus is drawing up contingency plans to phase out production of the world’s largest jetliner, the A380 superjumbo, if it fails to win a key order from Dubai’s Emirates, three people familiar with the matter said.
The moment of truth for the slow-selling airliner looms after just 10 years in service and leaves one of Europe’s most visible international symbols hanging by a thread, despite a major airline investment in new cabins unveiled this month.
“If there is no Emirates deal, Airbus will start the process of ending A380 production,” a person briefed on the plans said. A supplier added such a move was logical due to weak demand.
Airbus and Emirates declined to comment. Airbus also declined to say how many people work on the project.
Any shutdown is expected to be gradual, allowing Airbus to produce orders it has in hand, mainly from Emirates.
It has enough orders to last until early next decade at current production rates, according to a Reuters analysis.
The A380 was developed at a cost of 11 billion euros to carry some 500 people and challenge the reign of the Boeing 747.
But demand for these four-engined goliaths has fallen as airlines choose smaller twin-engined models, which are easier to fill and cheaper to maintain.
Emirates, however, has been a strong believer in the A380 and is easily the largest customer with total orders of 142 aircraft, of which it has taken just over 100.
Talks between Airbus and Emirates over a new order for 36 superjumbos worth $16 billion broke down at the Dubai Airshow last month. Negotiations are said to have resumed, but there are no visible signs that a deal is imminent.
Although airlines such as British Airways have expressed interest in the A380, Airbus is reluctant to keep factories open without the certainty that a bulk Emirates order would provide.
Emirates, for its part, wants a guarantee that Airbus will keep production going for a decade to protect its investment.
A decision to cancel would mark a rupture between Airbus and one of its largest customers and tie Emirates’ future growth to recent Boeing orders. European sources say that reflects growing American influence in the Gulf under President Donald Trump, but U.S. and UAE industry sources deny politics are involved.
There are also potential hurdles to a deal over engine choices and after-sales support.
SAFETY NET
Yet if talks succeed, European sources say there is a glimmer of hope for the double-deck jet, which Airbus says will become more popular with airlines due to congestion.
Singapore Airlines, which first introduced the A380 to passengers in 2007, showcased an $850 million cabin re-design this month and expressed confidence in the model’s future.
Airbus hopes to use an Emirates order to stabilise output and establish a safety net from which to attract A380 sales to other carriers, but has ruled out trying to do this the other way round, industry sources said.
As of the end of November, Airbus had won orders for 317 A380s and delivered 221, leaving 96 unfilled orders.
But based on airlines’ intentions or finances, 47 of those are unlikely to be delivered, according to industry sources, which halves the number of jets in play.
Airbus needs to sell at least another 30 to keep lines open for 10 years and possibly more to justify the price concessions likely to be demanded by any new buyers.
To bridge the gap, Airbus plans to cut output to six a year beyond 2019, from 12 in 2018 and 8 in 2019, even if it means producing at a loss, Reuters recently reported.
Chief Operating Officer Fabrice Bregier confirmed this month Airbus was looking at cutting output to 6-7 a year.
If Airbus does decide to wind down production, some believe Emirates will ask Airbus to deliver the remaining 41 it has on order and then keep most A380s in service as long as possible.
Even so, some A380s are likely to be heading for scrap.
Reuters
Airbus Offers China Production Role on A380 to Attract New Order
By Ania Nussbaum and Benjamin D Katz
European company in early talks for finishing, interior work
Planemaker may also accelerate narrow-body output in Tianjin
Airbus SE is offering China a production role on its A380 superjumbo for the first time in an effort to secure a program-extending order for the slow-selling double-decker jet, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
The European planemaker is in early talks on granting finishing and interiors work to the Asian nation if it commits to a significant new order for the model, said the person, who asked not to be named as the negotiations are confidential.
New sales are crucial for the A380 after a two-year order drought, though moving some work to China could upset the delicate production balance between the planemaker’s French and German plants. The planes are now assembled at the company’s headquarters in Toulouse, France, and subsequently flown to Hamburg for painting and the fitting of cabin furnishings including toilets and seats. Having that work done elsewhere is unlikely to be entirely welcomed by Airbus’s German workforce.
The person said that only Chinese-ordered planes would be affected and that no decision has been made at present. Further discussions may take place this week during an official visit to China by French President Emmanuel Macron, who is leading a major trade delegation that will include Airbus officials.
A spokesman for Airbus, which is part-owned by the French and German governments, declined to comment on whether China has been offered A380 work, saying the topic is “industry speculation.”
The FT reported earlier on a possible industrial partnership with China on the A380.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-08/airbus-is-said-to-offer-china-work-on-a380-to-attract-new-orders
By Ania Nussbaum and Benjamin D Katz
European company in early talks for finishing, interior work
Planemaker may also accelerate narrow-body output in Tianjin
Airbus SE is offering China a production role on its A380 superjumbo for the first time in an effort to secure a program-extending order for the slow-selling double-decker jet, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
The European planemaker is in early talks on granting finishing and interiors work to the Asian nation if it commits to a significant new order for the model, said the person, who asked not to be named as the negotiations are confidential.
New sales are crucial for the A380 after a two-year order drought, though moving some work to China could upset the delicate production balance between the planemaker’s French and German plants. The planes are now assembled at the company’s headquarters in Toulouse, France, and subsequently flown to Hamburg for painting and the fitting of cabin furnishings including toilets and seats. Having that work done elsewhere is unlikely to be entirely welcomed by Airbus’s German workforce.
The person said that only Chinese-ordered planes would be affected and that no decision has been made at present. Further discussions may take place this week during an official visit to China by French President Emmanuel Macron, who is leading a major trade delegation that will include Airbus officials.
A spokesman for Airbus, which is part-owned by the French and German governments, declined to comment on whether China has been offered A380 work, saying the topic is “industry speculation.”
The FT reported earlier on a possible industrial partnership with China on the A380.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-08/airbus-is-said-to-offer-china-work-on-a380-to-attract-new-orders
TW 843
Senior Member
Orami si sono infiliati in un vicolo cieco, qualunque decisione prendano (ammesso che ne prendano una) sarà sbagliata.
13900
Utente Registrato
- 26 Aprile 2012
- 10,475
- 8,572
Per come la vedo io, chiudere il programma non e' una decisione sbagliata, ma quella obbligata. Airbus aveva scommesso su un futuro di saturazione, sia a terra che in aria, e di costi del petrolio tali da rendere il point to point e le rotazioni multiple antieconomiche. In realta' le compagnie stanno coprendo l'extra domanda con densificazioni, vedi 3-4-3 sul 777 o il SpaceFlex sugli A320, e per il momento basta; il costo del petrolio e' un terzo di quant'era una volta, e il 380 e' troppo un dinosauro per essere usato se non in piccole dosi (Dubai esclusa, ovviamente).
In piu' il mercato si va raffreddando, basti vedere il 350-1000 e il 777-9X che non stanno facendo sfracelli...
Forse e' meglio chiudere l'esperimento 380, e concentrarsi su qualcos'altro, tipo il rimpiazzo del 330 e, soprattutto, del 320.
A me spiace per il 380; da passeggero e' meglio di qualsiasi prodotto Boeing, incluso il Dreamliner, e come operativita' e' molto piu' maturo del 787, pero' purtroppo temo sia nato troppo presto.
O troppo tardi. Ormai con ETOPS smisurati non ci sono più rotte (importanti) precluse ai bimotori, e a quel punto il vantaggio in termini di costi e di flessibilità diventa insuperabile.
Ciao.
Sono uno che ha viaggiato abbastanza su 388 di LH e di BA. Posso fare paragoni con il 748 di LH e 773 di BA e 330 (vari modelli e compagnie)
In ambedue i casi, a mio giudizio, per viaggiatore in economy, non c'è paragone quanto a comodità rispetto al 388.
OK. Stanno densificando i 777.
Ma la domanda è: esiste qualche compagnia che utilizza attualmente il 388 configurato per accogliere gli 800 passeggeri di cui si parlava tanto?
Sono uno che ha viaggiato abbastanza su 388 di LH e di BA. Posso fare paragoni con il 748 di LH e 773 di BA e 330 (vari modelli e compagnie)
In ambedue i casi, a mio giudizio, per viaggiatore in economy, non c'è paragone quanto a comodità rispetto al 388.
OK. Stanno densificando i 777.
Ma la domanda è: esiste qualche compagnia che utilizza attualmente il 388 configurato per accogliere gli 800 passeggeri di cui si parlava tanto?
Non sono del tutto concorde.
Le normative ETOPS, in particolare ETOPS 180 che permette di coprire il 95% delle rotte commerciali globali, sono in vigore da anni, ben prima che il 380 facesse capolino sul mercato. ETOPS 180, lanciata nel 1990 come estensione della 120 dopo un anno di servizi “trouble free”, diventa nativa con il lancio del 777 nel 1994, stesso anno in cui si inizia a parlare di A3XX; l’arrivo della crisi finanziaria asiatica ferma temporaneamente il progetto, rispolverato nel 2000, per poi essere messo in servizio nel 2005.
Il 380 non nasce con lo scopo di operare rotte precluse ai bimotori, per quello Airbus aveva già il lineup 340, bensì per accorpare servizi, riducendo i costi e mantenedo l’offerta, anche in vista di aeroporti sempre più congestionati.
Non stento a credere che lo scenario ipotizzato da Airbus sia veritiero e che da qui a 10-15 anni si tornerà a parlare di un 380 NEO, sul filone dell’eterno redivivo 757, ma ad oggi la stregrande maggioranza delle compagnie che poteva permettersi di poter operare la macchina lo ha in flotta e nessuno sembra intenzionato ad ordinarlo, EK esclusa.
A ciò bisogna aggiungere che con un rate di costruzione di 6 macchine all’anno come ventilato, Airbus dovrebbe perdere svariati milioni solo per mantenere aperta la linea.
Tanto vale chiudere.
Personalmente sono dell'idea che alla fine Airbus e Emirates troveranno una soluzione per allungare la vita dell'A380.
Anche, ma alla base di tutto c'era la volontà politica di fare "l'aereo più grande del mondo". Con tutte le conseguenze del caso. Oggi Airbus è profondamente diversa, ma negli anni '90, quando è nato il progetto, era ancora vista come un "giocattolo politico".
Politica o meno, sul finire degli anni ‘80 ben tre aziende mettono in cantiere un aereo con 500+ posti: lo fa McDonnell-Douglas con il MD-12, al pari di Boeing con il VLA e Airbus con il 3XX.
Qualche nicchia di mercato gli analisti dovevano averla vista perché, anche se l’unico dei tre a vedere la luce fu proprio l’A380, Boeing continuò ad investire nella cellula 747.
Dalla serie 400 ben tre furono i tentativi di upgrade: nel 1996 con i progetti 747-500X, -600X ed -700X, nel 2000 con 747X ed XStretch e, infine, nel 2005 con il 747-8i. Sono tutte rielaborazioni più o meno fantasione della cellula originale, accorciata con il 747SP, ma mai allungata. Il -500X ha più o meno la stessa lunghezza dell’attuale -8i (+5,5m) e prevedeva una capienza di 460 posti, mentre il -600X beneficiava di un ulteriore allungamento (+10m) e un centaio di pax in più. Nella stessa fascia di mercato si inserirono anche i progetti 747X e XStretch, più orientati verso un perfezionamento aerodinamico (+5,2m di wingspan), che nella capacità (430-500 posti); questo progetto non vide mai la luce in quanto tale, ma a beneficiare di molti accorgimenti tecnici fu proprio il -400 nella sua versione ER, ancora in servizio per Qantas (dovrebbero essere anche gli unici ad avere lo Sky Interior del 777). Alla fine la montagna partorì il topolino e il 747-8 vide la luce, troppo “piccolo” per essere grande (76,4m e 460 posti in tre classi), troppo “grande” per essere piccolo (il fratellino 777-300ER trasporta l’equivalente in pax, su distanze similari con due motori in meno).
Appena rientrato da in volo 777+380 andata in business rientro in economy Emirates
380 decisamente meglio in entrambi le classi
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antser
Utente Registrato
- 1 Ottobre 2016
- 620
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http://www.repubblica.it/economia/d...ne-186520025/?ref=RHPPBT-VE-I0-C6-P10-S4.2-T1
"...Bregier ha anche annunciato che, in assenza di nuovi ordini, si dovrà interrompere il programma dell'A380"
"...Bregier ha anche annunciato che, in assenza di nuovi ordini, si dovrà interrompere il programma dell'A380"
Emirates signs agreement for up to 36 additional A380s
Commitment to grow its flagship A380 fleet
Dubai, 18th January 2018 – Dubai-based Emirates Airline has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to acquire up to 36 additional A380 aircraft. The agreement was signed this morning at the airline’s headquarters in Dubai by HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, Chairman and Chief Executive, Emirates Airline and Group, and John Leahy, Chief Operating Officer Customers, Airbus Commercial Aircraft. The commitment is for 20 A380s and an option for 16 more with deliveries to start in 2020, valued at US$16 billion at latest list prices.
Sheikh Ahmed said: “We’ve made no secret of the fact that the A380 has been a success for Emirates. Our customers love it, and we’ve been able to deploy it on different missions across our network, giving us flexibility in terms of range and passenger mix. He added: “Some of the new A380s we’ve just ordered will be used as fleet replacements. This order will provide stability to the A380 production line. We will continue to work closely with Airbus to further enhance the aircraft and onboard product, so as to offer our passengers the best possible experience. The beauty of this aircraft is that the technology and real estate on board gives us plenty of room to do something different with the interiors.”
"I would like to thank Emirates, HH Sheikh Ahmed, Tim Clark and Adel Al-Redha for their continued support of the A380,” said John Leahy, Chief Operating Officer Customers, Airbus Commercial Aircraft. “This aircraft has contributed enormously to Emirates' growth and success since 2008 and we are delighted that it will continue to do so. This new order underscores Airbus’ commitment to produce the A380 at least for another ten years. I’m personally convinced more orders will follow Emirates’ example and that this great aircraft will be built well into the 2030s.”
Following delivery of its first A380 in July 2008, Emirates took its 100th A380 on the 3rd November 2017 in Hamburg.
The A380 is an essential part of the solution to sustainable growth, alleviating traffic congestion at busy airports by transporting more passengers with fewer flights. The A380 is the best way to capture growing world air traffic, which doubles every 15 years. The A380 flies 8,200 nautical miles (15,200 kilometres) non-stop and can accommodate 575 passengers in 4 classes.
The spacious, quiet cabin, smooth and most comfortable ride have made the A380 today’s passenger favourite, resulting in higher load factors wherever it flies. The A380 is the world’s largest aircraft, with two full widebody decks, offering widest seats, wide aisles and more floor space. The A380 has the unique capability to generate revenue, stimulate traffic and attract the passengers, who can now specifically select the A380 when booking a flight via the innovative iflyA380.com web site.
To date over 200 million passengers have already enjoyed the unique experience of flying on board an A380. Every two minutes an A380 either takes off or lands at one of the 240 airports around the world, ready to accommodate this magnificent aircraft. To date, 222 A380s have been delivered to 13 Airlines.
* * *
Airbus Contacts for Media
Stefan Schaffrath +33 6 16 09 55 92 stefan.schaffrath@airbus.com
Sam Ismail +97 156 171 7025 samsana.ismail@airbus.com
Anne Galabert +33 6 42 65 26 17 anne.galabert@airbus.com
Matthieu Duvelleroy +33 6 29 43 15 64 matthieu.duvelleroy@airbus.com
About Airbus
Airbus is a global leader in aeronautics, space and related services. In 2016 it generated revenues of €67 billion and employed a workforce of around 134,000. Airbus offers the most comprehensive range of passenger airliners from 100 to more than 600 seats and business aviation products. Airbus is also a European leader providing tanker, combat, transport and mission aircraft, as well as one of the world’s leading space companies. In helicopters, Airbus provides the most efficient civil and military rotorcraft solutions worldwide.
This and other press releases and high resolution photos are available on: AirbusNewsroom
Commitment to grow its flagship A380 fleet
Dubai, 18th January 2018 – Dubai-based Emirates Airline has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) to acquire up to 36 additional A380 aircraft. The agreement was signed this morning at the airline’s headquarters in Dubai by HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, Chairman and Chief Executive, Emirates Airline and Group, and John Leahy, Chief Operating Officer Customers, Airbus Commercial Aircraft. The commitment is for 20 A380s and an option for 16 more with deliveries to start in 2020, valued at US$16 billion at latest list prices.
Sheikh Ahmed said: “We’ve made no secret of the fact that the A380 has been a success for Emirates. Our customers love it, and we’ve been able to deploy it on different missions across our network, giving us flexibility in terms of range and passenger mix. He added: “Some of the new A380s we’ve just ordered will be used as fleet replacements. This order will provide stability to the A380 production line. We will continue to work closely with Airbus to further enhance the aircraft and onboard product, so as to offer our passengers the best possible experience. The beauty of this aircraft is that the technology and real estate on board gives us plenty of room to do something different with the interiors.”
"I would like to thank Emirates, HH Sheikh Ahmed, Tim Clark and Adel Al-Redha for their continued support of the A380,” said John Leahy, Chief Operating Officer Customers, Airbus Commercial Aircraft. “This aircraft has contributed enormously to Emirates' growth and success since 2008 and we are delighted that it will continue to do so. This new order underscores Airbus’ commitment to produce the A380 at least for another ten years. I’m personally convinced more orders will follow Emirates’ example and that this great aircraft will be built well into the 2030s.”
Following delivery of its first A380 in July 2008, Emirates took its 100th A380 on the 3rd November 2017 in Hamburg.
The A380 is an essential part of the solution to sustainable growth, alleviating traffic congestion at busy airports by transporting more passengers with fewer flights. The A380 is the best way to capture growing world air traffic, which doubles every 15 years. The A380 flies 8,200 nautical miles (15,200 kilometres) non-stop and can accommodate 575 passengers in 4 classes.
The spacious, quiet cabin, smooth and most comfortable ride have made the A380 today’s passenger favourite, resulting in higher load factors wherever it flies. The A380 is the world’s largest aircraft, with two full widebody decks, offering widest seats, wide aisles and more floor space. The A380 has the unique capability to generate revenue, stimulate traffic and attract the passengers, who can now specifically select the A380 when booking a flight via the innovative iflyA380.com web site.
To date over 200 million passengers have already enjoyed the unique experience of flying on board an A380. Every two minutes an A380 either takes off or lands at one of the 240 airports around the world, ready to accommodate this magnificent aircraft. To date, 222 A380s have been delivered to 13 Airlines.
* * *
Airbus Contacts for Media
Stefan Schaffrath +33 6 16 09 55 92 stefan.schaffrath@airbus.com
Sam Ismail +97 156 171 7025 samsana.ismail@airbus.com
Anne Galabert +33 6 42 65 26 17 anne.galabert@airbus.com
Matthieu Duvelleroy +33 6 29 43 15 64 matthieu.duvelleroy@airbus.com
About Airbus
Airbus is a global leader in aeronautics, space and related services. In 2016 it generated revenues of €67 billion and employed a workforce of around 134,000. Airbus offers the most comprehensive range of passenger airliners from 100 to more than 600 seats and business aviation products. Airbus is also a European leader providing tanker, combat, transport and mission aircraft, as well as one of the world’s leading space companies. In helicopters, Airbus provides the most efficient civil and military rotorcraft solutions worldwide.
This and other press releases and high resolution photos are available on: AirbusNewsroom
