Una sì: volare senza problemi di Etops.
Se poi parliamo di 748 e non solo di 748i, c'è da mettere in conto una grande superiorità nelle versioni all-cargo.
Consegne e notizie sugli A380
- Autore Discussione DusCgn
- Data d'inizio
Se poi parliamo di 748 e non solo di 748i, c'è da mettere in conto una grande superiorità nelle versioni all-cargo.
Volato ha volato eccome. E invito chiunque a leggere gli statements della stessa Boeing sulle perdite di performance dell'aereo. E permetti che dall'interno dell'industria non sia così difficile valutare con un buon livello di precisione i parametri di un aereo già costruito e già volante. In più esiste una cosa chiamata intelligence che si occupa prettamente di ciò, ambo i lati.
Vero. Ma finora i clienti che hanno acquistato il modello non ne hanno realmente bisogno per le loro rotte.
E mi scuso per non essere stato chiaro, ma mi sto riferendo alla versione passeggeri, 747-8i. L'8-F è un'altra storia che necesiterebbe di discorsi a parte.
Vero, ma ad esempio LH non ha molti WB "twin" in flotta, magari è solo una policy aziendale.
La commonality con il cargo poi è un bel plus.
facendo un gioco ho notato che l'alleanza che ha più 380 in ordine è SA, allora ho preso la lista delle delle compagnie aderenti alle varie alleanze ed ho ipotizzato le papabili come utilizzatrici del 380.
ST
Aeroflot : Un ordine come quello di Asiana potrebbe sostenerlo
Aeroméxico: sulle rotte con Madrid e il sud America potrebbero servirgli
Air Europa: non penso possa impiegarli su qualche rotta
Alitalia C.A.I.: Giappone e Sud America potrebbero essere in futuro i mercati dove Az potrebbe impiegare il 380
Czech Airlines: non penso abbia rotte da 380
Delta Air Lines: potrebbe fare un bell ordine di a380, le rotte dove utilizzarli le ha
Kenya Airways: non penso sia nelle sue possibilità
KLM: ha le rotte ma ha anche un forte legame con Boeing
TAROM: non ne ha la possibilità
Vietnam Airlines: se mi ricordo bene ha firmato un memorandum per 4 macchine
Futuri membri
Aerolíneas Argentinas: per sostituire i b747
China Airlines: non credo sia nei suoi bisogni
China Eastern Airlines: credo che a livello cinese il 380 abbia ricevuto pochi ordini per ora e questa compagnia è candidata a farne uno
Garuda: la compagnia indonesiana ha tutte le carte in regola per fare un discreto ordine.
ST
Aeroflot : Un ordine come quello di Asiana potrebbe sostenerlo
Aeroméxico: sulle rotte con Madrid e il sud America potrebbero servirgli
Air Europa: non penso possa impiegarli su qualche rotta
Alitalia C.A.I.: Giappone e Sud America potrebbero essere in futuro i mercati dove Az potrebbe impiegare il 380
Czech Airlines: non penso abbia rotte da 380
Delta Air Lines: potrebbe fare un bell ordine di a380, le rotte dove utilizzarli le ha
Kenya Airways: non penso sia nelle sue possibilità
KLM: ha le rotte ma ha anche un forte legame con Boeing
TAROM: non ne ha la possibilità
Vietnam Airlines: se mi ricordo bene ha firmato un memorandum per 4 macchine
Futuri membri
Aerolíneas Argentinas: per sostituire i b747
China Airlines: non credo sia nei suoi bisogni
China Eastern Airlines: credo che a livello cinese il 380 abbia ricevuto pochi ordini per ora e questa compagnia è candidata a farne uno
Garuda: la compagnia indonesiana ha tutte le carte in regola per fare un discreto ordine.
ZannaIT88
Utente Registrato
- 7 Maggio 2009
- 1,893
- 0
SA
Aegean Airlines: non è da 380
Air Canada: un ordine all'asiana 6 macchine
Air China: potrebbe essere dopo Ek uno dei maggiori clienti del 380
Air New Zealand: credo non ne abbia bisogno
ANA All Nippon Airways: aveva manifestato tempo fa un certo interesse, non la vedo fantascientifica come ipotesi
Austrian Airlines: non credo faccia per lei
bmi: non da 380
Brussels Airlines: non da 380
Egypt Air: ordine di 6 macchine
LOT Polish Airlines: non da 380
SAS Scandinavian Airlines System: non da 380
SAA South African Airways: dato l'impiego delle major europee sulle destinazioni sud africane del 380 credo sia papabile come cliente
Spanair: troppo piccola
Swiss International Air Lines: ora non fa per lei
TAM Linhas Aéreas : dopo la fusione avra un traffico da 380
TAP Portugal: penso non sia dda 380
Turkish Airlines: sta valutando tra il 380 e il 747
United Air Lines: la mega compagnia usa ha rotte dove impegarlo, tuttavia la vedo difficile
US Airways: non da 380
Futuri membri
Air India: penso possa permetterselo
Avianca: non da 380
Aegean Airlines: non è da 380
Air Canada: un ordine all'asiana 6 macchine
Air China: potrebbe essere dopo Ek uno dei maggiori clienti del 380
Air New Zealand: credo non ne abbia bisogno
ANA All Nippon Airways: aveva manifestato tempo fa un certo interesse, non la vedo fantascientifica come ipotesi
Austrian Airlines: non credo faccia per lei
bmi: non da 380
Brussels Airlines: non da 380
Egypt Air: ordine di 6 macchine
LOT Polish Airlines: non da 380
SAS Scandinavian Airlines System: non da 380
SAA South African Airways: dato l'impiego delle major europee sulle destinazioni sud africane del 380 credo sia papabile come cliente
Spanair: troppo piccola
Swiss International Air Lines: ora non fa per lei
TAM Linhas Aéreas : dopo la fusione avra un traffico da 380
TAP Portugal: penso non sia dda 380
Turkish Airlines: sta valutando tra il 380 e il 747
United Air Lines: la mega compagnia usa ha rotte dove impegarlo, tuttavia la vedo difficile
US Airways: non da 380
Futuri membri
Air India: penso possa permetterselo
Avianca: non da 380
Il 747-8i è un derivato della versione Cargo (prima volta nella storia, in passato è sempre stato il contrario), con cui condivide più del 97% della struttura. Questo significa anche che la progettazione dell'aereo in termini di design strutturale è pensata prima per il cargo e poi per il trasporto passeggeri ove normalmente la struttura potrebbe essere più leggera: per contenere i costi produttivi si è scelto di mantenere la maggior parte dei componenti della versione 8F inalterati anche nella versione 8i, penalizzando dunque le performance. Inoltre tutti problemi strutturali riscontrati durante le fasi di test (quindi ben successivi al design dell'aereo) valgono e devono essere risolti anche per il 747-8i. E' dunque facile ipotizzare (ma più che un'ipotesi è uno studio approfondito) che la perdita di performance nella versione 8F sia proporzionale anche nella versione pax. On top of this, vale il discorso sulla competenza presente all'interno dell'industria e sull'intelligence di cui sopra.
Ow
American Airlines: potenziale cliente
Cathay Pacific: c'è stato un interesse e dei suggerimenti da parte di cathay
Finnair: non da 380
Iberia: prima della crisi avevano manifestato interesse
Japan Airlines: rimessa in sesto potrebbe essere una compagnia da a380
LAN: fusa con Tam sara un potenziale cliente
Malév: non da 380
Mexicana: non da 380
Royal Jordanian: non da 380
S7 Airlines: non da 380
futuri
Air Berlin: per ora non fa per lei
American Airlines: potenziale cliente
Cathay Pacific: c'è stato un interesse e dei suggerimenti da parte di cathay
Finnair: non da 380
Iberia: prima della crisi avevano manifestato interesse
Japan Airlines: rimessa in sesto potrebbe essere una compagnia da a380
LAN: fusa con Tam sara un potenziale cliente
Malév: non da 380
Mexicana: non da 380
Royal Jordanian: non da 380
S7 Airlines: non da 380
futuri
Air Berlin: per ora non fa per lei
Asiana To Use A380s On Burgeoning Routes To U.S.
Aviation Daily 7/01/2011
Asiana Airlines, South Korea’s second-largest carrier, has placed a firm order for six Airbus A380s, which will help it take advantage of an expected boost in demand on transpacific routes. An Asiana spokesman says the carrier has signed a contract with Airbus for the six A380s, with the first two to come in 2014, followed by two in 2015 and two in 2017. The Star Alliance carrier has yet to make an engine selection, adds the spokesman, who was unable to say when a decision would be made. Asiana’s spokesman concedes that Korean Air’s decision to order A380s, with the first five coming this year, may have been a factor in Asiana’s move. But he says a bigger reason for the decision was Asiana’s desire to capitalize on the projected increase in traffic that is set to occur between South Korea and the
U.S., now that a free-trade agreement between the countries appears likely to go into effect. He says passenger traffic between the two countries is also expected to increase because it is now easier for Koreans to get visa-free entry to the U.S. The spokesman declines to say which U.S. cities Asiana’s A380s will serve. He also says the carrier plans to operate the aircraft to Europe. Another reason for the move is that Asiana wants to use the A380 to reinforce its position as a top-tier premium carrier, says the spokesman. At this stage, Asiana plans to equip its A380s with 525 passenger seats in three classes: economy, business and first. The aircraft will replace some of the carrier’s Boeing 777-200ERs and its two Boeing 747-400 passenger aircraft. Asiana in the past had a larger fleet of 747-400 passenger aircraft, but it converted some to freighters. The spokesman says the last two 747-400 passenger aircraft in the fleet might also be converted to freighters or reassigned to routes within Asia, such as Seoul Incheon-Bangkok. The spokesman says one reason Asiana chose the A380 over the Boeing 747-8 is because the carrier already has an order for 30 Airbus A350s and there is some commonality in parts and equipment between the two aircraft types. John Leahy, Airbus chief operating officer-customers, says the order “is a further endorsement of the A380 as the most efficient tool to meet demand on the world’s most heavily traveled routes, especially out of the fastgrowing Asia-Pacific region.” “With the A380 in its fleet, Asiana will be able to increase its share of international traffic and reinforce its well-deserved status as one of the world’s premier carriers,” he says.
aviationweek
Aviation Daily 7/01/2011
Asiana Airlines, South Korea’s second-largest carrier, has placed a firm order for six Airbus A380s, which will help it take advantage of an expected boost in demand on transpacific routes. An Asiana spokesman says the carrier has signed a contract with Airbus for the six A380s, with the first two to come in 2014, followed by two in 2015 and two in 2017. The Star Alliance carrier has yet to make an engine selection, adds the spokesman, who was unable to say when a decision would be made. Asiana’s spokesman concedes that Korean Air’s decision to order A380s, with the first five coming this year, may have been a factor in Asiana’s move. But he says a bigger reason for the decision was Asiana’s desire to capitalize on the projected increase in traffic that is set to occur between South Korea and the
U.S., now that a free-trade agreement between the countries appears likely to go into effect. He says passenger traffic between the two countries is also expected to increase because it is now easier for Koreans to get visa-free entry to the U.S. The spokesman declines to say which U.S. cities Asiana’s A380s will serve. He also says the carrier plans to operate the aircraft to Europe. Another reason for the move is that Asiana wants to use the A380 to reinforce its position as a top-tier premium carrier, says the spokesman. At this stage, Asiana plans to equip its A380s with 525 passenger seats in three classes: economy, business and first. The aircraft will replace some of the carrier’s Boeing 777-200ERs and its two Boeing 747-400 passenger aircraft. Asiana in the past had a larger fleet of 747-400 passenger aircraft, but it converted some to freighters. The spokesman says the last two 747-400 passenger aircraft in the fleet might also be converted to freighters or reassigned to routes within Asia, such as Seoul Incheon-Bangkok. The spokesman says one reason Asiana chose the A380 over the Boeing 747-8 is because the carrier already has an order for 30 Airbus A350s and there is some commonality in parts and equipment between the two aircraft types. John Leahy, Airbus chief operating officer-customers, says the order “is a further endorsement of the A380 as the most efficient tool to meet demand on the world’s most heavily traveled routes, especially out of the fastgrowing Asia-Pacific region.” “With the A380 in its fleet, Asiana will be able to increase its share of international traffic and reinforce its well-deserved status as one of the world’s premier carriers,” he says.
aviationweek
Airbus A380 Jet Builds Momentum With Asiana's $1.8 Billion Six-Plane Order
By Andrea Rothman - Jan 6, 2011
Airbus SAS won an order for six A380s from Asiana Airlines Inc., building momentum for sales of the superjumbo after a dry spell of more than three years when the planemaker attracted only one new operator.
Asiana, South Korea’s second-biggest carrier, said today it will take its first A380 in April 2014 in an order valued at $1.8 billion as it challenges larger rival Korean Air Lines Co. on intercontinental routes.
The airline is the second new customer in three months to pick the 525-seater after Skymark Airlines Inc., Japan’s biggest discount carrier, said in November it would order as many as 15. Boeing Co.’s challenger to the A380 passenger model, its 747-8 Intercontinental, has won orders for 33 planes, with no new airline orders since December 2009. Airbus’s A380 now has orders for 240 planes from 18 customers.
“It’s more than a trend, it’s the logic of the industry,” Airbus’s A380 marketing director, Richard Carcaillet, said today. “Airlines are adding capacity, introducing new cabin products, and the A380 is the vector” for much of the growth.
Qantas Blowout
The order is also the first for the model since a Rolls- Royce Group Plc engine exploded during on a Qantas Airways Ltd. A380 in November. Qantas grounded all six of its superjumbos and still hasn’t resumed services with the plane to Los Angeles.
Singapore Airlines Ltd. and Deutsche Lufthansa AG replaced some engines on their Rolls-powered A380s and Airbus says it’s working to resolve associated disruption to the production line.
Airlines are obtaining higher load factors, or seat occupancy levels, and yields, or ticket prices, with the A380 than other planes, Carcaillet said. Lufthansa fills the same percentage of seats in A380s to Tokyo and other cities as it did on using Boeing 747s, spokesman Boris Ogursky said in an e-mail.
“The 747-8 is a very competitive airplane with a strong future and a significant market niche,” said Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx in an e-mail. “Talks continue with several airplanes regarding the airplane, its capabilities and how it could fit into their fleets.”
Shares of Airbus European Aeronautics, Defence & Space Co. rose the most in six weeks. They climbed 3.8 percent, the most since Nov. 24, to 19.08 euros at the 5:35 p.m. close of trading in Paris. That made EADS the day’s leading gainer in France’s benchmark CAC-40 Index.
Repeat Orders
While Airbus has won repeat orders from existing A380 customers, such as Korean Air and Dubai-based Emirates, it’s had trouble winning new customers since the plane began commercial service with Singapore Air in October 2007. The only first-time buyer since a British Airways Plc order in 2007 was Air Austral, a carrier from the Indian Ocean island of Reunion that ordered two in November 2009.
“It’s a big, costly aircraft that’s very much a strategic decision for any airline, as it’s clearly an aircraft to cater for growth,” said Sandy Morris, an analyst at Royal Bank of Scotland. “Given the recession, lack of growth in air traffic and difficulty in getting finance, you wouldn’t have expected very much to happen earlier.”
Morris, with a “buy” recommendation on EADS shares, said he remains a “great optimist for long-term sales of the A380.” The plane has 41 jets in service, according to Airbus.
Asiana, like Skymark in Japan, is using the superjumbo to challenge larger domestic rivals. Korean Air will take delivery of five superjumbos this year, with another five planes set to follow in the next two years.
Long-Haul Routes
Asiana will use the double-decker planes on flights to the U.S. and Europe, the airline’s chief executive, Yoon Young-Doo, said in a statement today.
“There’s huge demand in the long-haul market, especially between Asia and the U.S.,” said Ryu Jae Hyun, a Hong Kong- based analyst at Mirae Asset Securities Co. “Korean Air is earning a lot of profits from that.”
Korean Air and Lufthansa are the only two customers so far for Boeing’s 747-8I, which can seat 467. Boeing in September extended a yearlong delivery delay for the jet by six months to let engineers redesign some parts. Deliveries for the freighter model are set to begin in mid-2011 and for the passenger model later in the year.
The A380 can carry 525 passengers in a typical three-class configuration and more than 800 in a single-class layout, according to Airbus. The plane, which Airbus says is more fuel- efficient than older jets, has a list price of $346 million, though airlines get discounts for multiple purchases.
Engine Choice
Today five carriers fly the A380 -- Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa, Qantas, Emirates and Air France-KLM Group -- and Korean Air and China Southern Airlines Co. will become the sixth and seventh operators this year.
Asiana said it hasn’t decided whether it will order engines from Rolls or a Pratt & Whitney-General Electric Co. venture, the Engine Alliance, that makes a competing turbine and powers A380s including those of Emirates and Air France-KLM Group.
Asiana ordered 30 Airbus A350 planes, worth $7.2 billion at list prices, in 2008, with options for 10 more. The Seoul-based airline expects to take delivery of those aircraft starting in 2016. The carrier has 70 aircraft, including freighters, according to its website.
By Andrea Rothman - Jan 6, 2011
Airbus SAS won an order for six A380s from Asiana Airlines Inc., building momentum for sales of the superjumbo after a dry spell of more than three years when the planemaker attracted only one new operator.
Asiana, South Korea’s second-biggest carrier, said today it will take its first A380 in April 2014 in an order valued at $1.8 billion as it challenges larger rival Korean Air Lines Co. on intercontinental routes.
The airline is the second new customer in three months to pick the 525-seater after Skymark Airlines Inc., Japan’s biggest discount carrier, said in November it would order as many as 15. Boeing Co.’s challenger to the A380 passenger model, its 747-8 Intercontinental, has won orders for 33 planes, with no new airline orders since December 2009. Airbus’s A380 now has orders for 240 planes from 18 customers.
“It’s more than a trend, it’s the logic of the industry,” Airbus’s A380 marketing director, Richard Carcaillet, said today. “Airlines are adding capacity, introducing new cabin products, and the A380 is the vector” for much of the growth.
Qantas Blowout
The order is also the first for the model since a Rolls- Royce Group Plc engine exploded during on a Qantas Airways Ltd. A380 in November. Qantas grounded all six of its superjumbos and still hasn’t resumed services with the plane to Los Angeles.
Singapore Airlines Ltd. and Deutsche Lufthansa AG replaced some engines on their Rolls-powered A380s and Airbus says it’s working to resolve associated disruption to the production line.
Airlines are obtaining higher load factors, or seat occupancy levels, and yields, or ticket prices, with the A380 than other planes, Carcaillet said. Lufthansa fills the same percentage of seats in A380s to Tokyo and other cities as it did on using Boeing 747s, spokesman Boris Ogursky said in an e-mail.
“The 747-8 is a very competitive airplane with a strong future and a significant market niche,” said Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx in an e-mail. “Talks continue with several airplanes regarding the airplane, its capabilities and how it could fit into their fleets.”
Shares of Airbus European Aeronautics, Defence & Space Co. rose the most in six weeks. They climbed 3.8 percent, the most since Nov. 24, to 19.08 euros at the 5:35 p.m. close of trading in Paris. That made EADS the day’s leading gainer in France’s benchmark CAC-40 Index.
Repeat Orders
While Airbus has won repeat orders from existing A380 customers, such as Korean Air and Dubai-based Emirates, it’s had trouble winning new customers since the plane began commercial service with Singapore Air in October 2007. The only first-time buyer since a British Airways Plc order in 2007 was Air Austral, a carrier from the Indian Ocean island of Reunion that ordered two in November 2009.
“It’s a big, costly aircraft that’s very much a strategic decision for any airline, as it’s clearly an aircraft to cater for growth,” said Sandy Morris, an analyst at Royal Bank of Scotland. “Given the recession, lack of growth in air traffic and difficulty in getting finance, you wouldn’t have expected very much to happen earlier.”
Morris, with a “buy” recommendation on EADS shares, said he remains a “great optimist for long-term sales of the A380.” The plane has 41 jets in service, according to Airbus.
Asiana, like Skymark in Japan, is using the superjumbo to challenge larger domestic rivals. Korean Air will take delivery of five superjumbos this year, with another five planes set to follow in the next two years.
Long-Haul Routes
Asiana will use the double-decker planes on flights to the U.S. and Europe, the airline’s chief executive, Yoon Young-Doo, said in a statement today.
“There’s huge demand in the long-haul market, especially between Asia and the U.S.,” said Ryu Jae Hyun, a Hong Kong- based analyst at Mirae Asset Securities Co. “Korean Air is earning a lot of profits from that.”
Korean Air and Lufthansa are the only two customers so far for Boeing’s 747-8I, which can seat 467. Boeing in September extended a yearlong delivery delay for the jet by six months to let engineers redesign some parts. Deliveries for the freighter model are set to begin in mid-2011 and for the passenger model later in the year.
The A380 can carry 525 passengers in a typical three-class configuration and more than 800 in a single-class layout, according to Airbus. The plane, which Airbus says is more fuel- efficient than older jets, has a list price of $346 million, though airlines get discounts for multiple purchases.
Engine Choice
Today five carriers fly the A380 -- Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa, Qantas, Emirates and Air France-KLM Group -- and Korean Air and China Southern Airlines Co. will become the sixth and seventh operators this year.
Asiana said it hasn’t decided whether it will order engines from Rolls or a Pratt & Whitney-General Electric Co. venture, the Engine Alliance, that makes a competing turbine and powers A380s including those of Emirates and Air France-KLM Group.
Asiana ordered 30 Airbus A350 planes, worth $7.2 billion at list prices, in 2008, with options for 10 more. The Seoul-based airline expects to take delivery of those aircraft starting in 2016. The carrier has 70 aircraft, including freighters, according to its website.
Certo che in Korea ci sono due compagnie, sono 50.000.000 di abitanti e si permettono entrambe di ordinare l'A380.... ne hanno di traffico...
andreapinti
Utente Registrato
Da notare che l'area metropolitana di Seoul fa qualcosa come 25 milioni di abitanti.
Inoltre per uscire dalla Korea non hai alternative, a nord non passi e comunque non andresti da nessuna parte... e via mare la costa più vicina è ad un giorno di navigazione, ergo non resta che volare!!!
Alcune di queste e delle altre alleanze che tu reputi "non da 380" potrebbero rivelarsi delle sorprese
Ovviamente lungi da me dirti quali, anche perché come si sa all'ultimo momento le cose possono rovesciarsi completamente.E ricordo sempre i due casi Air Austral e SkyMark: come le avresti classificate prima dei loro ordini o M.o.U.?
P.S. - C'è un errore in Star Alliance: Egypt Air non ha alcun ordine (per il momento).
Rischiando forse di sembrare stucchevole (lungi da me l'intenzione), l'occasione è però propizia per postare questa notizia contestuale all'ordine di Asiana e che sembra essere passata inosservata (prego gli amministratori di spostare il post in altro thread se OT):
JANUARY 6, 2011
Bloomberg: Delays spur company to cancel Boeing 747-8 order
Guggenheim Aviation Partners, a leasing firm based in Issaquah, canceled its remaining order for two Boeing 747-8 Freighters because of continued delays with the program, Bloomberg reported Thursday.
Guggenheim Aviation Partners Boeing 747-8 Freighter. (Boeing image)
Guggenheim originally ordered four 747-8s, with options for two more, in 2006. But it halved the order in December 2009.
"It's very disappointing for us as we wanted to stay with the program," Guggenheim Chief Executive Officer Steve Rimmer told Reuters. "The cancellation was a direct result of the delays and the commercial consequences of those delays."
The latest delay came in September, when Boeing pushed planned delivery of the first 747-8 from the end of 2010 to the middle of 2011.
The cancellation gave Boeing a net loss of one 747-8 order for 2010. Read more on the year-end order totals here.
Boeing Commercial Airplanes marketing chief Randy Tinseth told Bloomberg the company is disappointed to lose the order but is "in talks with a handful of customers" about potential 747-8 orders. See more in the story.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/
Shogun
Utente Registrato
- 18 Novembre 2010
- 1,184
- 28
Finalmente un nuovo cliente per l'A380. Ora gli ordini hanno raggiunto quota 240.
Shogun
Utente Registrato
- 18 Novembre 2010
- 1,184
- 28
Ho paura che per quanto riguarda il break-even point le stime siano state riviste al rialzo e non di poco. Credo che rick@BCN possa dirci qualcosa di più preciso al riguardo.
E' probabilmente sopra i 300 aerei, ma in un paio d'anni ne hanno venduti veramente tanti, molto meglio di qualsiali previsione, credo.