Che un vettore potesse mettersi a far concorrenza a LH con l'aiuto di LH stessa è roba che nemmeno al Politburo verrebbe in mente di ritenere coerente.
Condor presenta la nuova livrea (a righe)
- Autore Discussione FlyKing
- Data d'inizio
13900
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Appunto, ma così è stato finchè un tribunale tedesco (ancora una volta, un tribunale tedesco, non la commissione europea) ha deciso, dopo anni.
Lufthansa nicht länger an Condor-Konditionen gebunden
Condor und Bundeskartellamt scheitern in Karlsruhe: Der BGH hält Lufthansa nicht länger an Condor-Sonderkonditionen für Zu- und Abbringer in Frankfurt fest. Lufthansa will die künftigen Geschäftsbeziehungen zu Condor noch vor Jahresende regeln. Der Ferienflieger setzt eigene Zubringerflüge auf.
www.aero.de
East End Ave
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Sicuro eh?
Sia come sia resta che una chiude e l'altgra ne beneficia, in altre parole tutte le millemila pippe procedural-burocratiche in EU alla fine si rivelano del tutto evanescenti, stante che LHG /AJV beneficiano alla grande di detta decisione, incrementando di certo il proprio market-share.
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Il mio punto e' che l'UE in questa decisione su Condor non c'entra una mazza. La decisione l'ha presa un tribunale tedesco, a seguito di un recorso di LH (e anche la decisione di sovvenzionare Condor era presa localmente). L'UE non c'entra niente. Cosi' come vogliamo essere precisi in altri frangenti, non penso sia sbagliato esserlo anche in questo, no? Altrimenti finiamo come il qualsivoglia politico che per fare qualsiasi cosa dice 'ce lo chiede l'Europa'.Sicuro eh?
Sia come sia resta che una chiude e l'altgra ne beneficia, in altre parole tutte le millemila pippe procedural-burocratiche in EU alla fine si rivelano del tutto evanescenti, stante che LHG /AJV beneficiano alla grande di detta decisione, incrementando di certo il proprio market-share.
Poi, parlando del fatto, come dice il buon kenadams, il prezzo politico per i code share e i feeder per me e' una boiata.
East End Ave
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ma amico mio, tecnicamente e' ovvio!
Punto per punto, il mio e' quello che millemila pippe EU evaporano in un amen con questa sentenza, tutto qua. E mi sembra un'evidenza fin troppo chiara peraltro. O allora la stessa UE adesso dovrebbe intervenire e dire: " eh no cara LH, dobbiamo adesso rivedere qualcosa per mitigare l'abuso di posizione dominante dopo che Condor chiude non una, non due, ma ben 5 destinazioni USA e 2 Canada!"
E sai bene che lo dico pure contro i miei interessi, ma e' solo per dire che la UE fa il buono e il cattivo tempo a seconda di ben altri interessi.
C'era una volta un'industria fortemente regolamentata, per cui era normale fare un BLQ-FRA-JFK con AZ+Pan Am, o avere la stessa tariffa escursionista facendo andata AZ e ritorno BA, ecc. Poi e' arrivata la deregulation. Allora BA poteva permettersi di fare prezzi bassissimi per il feed LIN-LHR-JFK (in J costa molto meno del LHR-JFK), la benemerita commissione a un certo punto dichiaro' che le stesse tariffe dovevano essere applicate anche su feed di altre compagnie, per cui un LIN-LHR-JFK BA+VS costava, al passeggero, la stessa somma. Poi arrivarono le joint venture e le airlines alliances e queste cose venivano limitate 'agli amici'. La benemerita fece un ulteriore intervento e impose tariffe feed a chiunque dovesse caricare passeggeri a vattelappesca per portarli a megahubEU per poi trasferirli a una linea aerea 'non amica'. Adesso LH si e' liberata da questo giogo.
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La DG concorrenza della Commissione Europea si occupa di quei casi che hanno rilevanza comunitaria, usando metodi di valutazione descritti nei regolamenti UE; se non si arriva alla rilevanza comunitaria allora non se ne occupa. Io capisco che non sia l'ambito piu' interessante su cui disquisire, però… (edit: ho letto un po’ sulla querelle e ne ho fatto un sunto di cui sotto).
Ultima modifica:
13900
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Comunque, siccome non avevo molto da fare negli ultimi 10 minuti mi sono fatto un po' una cultura su 'sta faccenda. Breve sommario:
Lufthansa and Condor: An end to the long-standing pro-rate agreement is looming – Aviation.Direct
IATA - Codeshare and Special Prorate Agreements: An Introduction (classroom)
LOT Polish Airlines signs Special Prorate Agreement with Qantas
Lufthansa and Condor: A bitter legal dispute over feeder flights – Aviation.Direct
FCO Prohibits Lufthansa From Terminating Feeder Flights For Condor | Cleary Antitrust Watch
- Lufthansa e Condor avevano firmato, temporibus illis, uno Special Prorate Agreement. In soldoni un accordo di interline in cui le due parti si distribuiscono le spettanze in quanto a fees e via dicendo. A quanto ne capisco, LH non e' stata costretta a firmarlo, era in esistenza da tempo.
- l'SPA doveva scadere a fine 2024.
- Durante il Covid, nel 2021, LH informa Condor che intendono disdire l'SPA.
- Condor si adombra, e fa ricorso al Federal Cartel Office tedesco (ossia l'Antitrust tedesco, evidentemente questa pratica non ha dimensione comunitaria altrimenti sarebbero andati alla Commissione, o il FCO tedesco si sarebbe ricusato)
- L'FCO tedesco da' ragione a Condor, dicendo, in soldoni, che senza SPA mancano i transiti.
- Lufthansa fa ricorso, e lo fa alla corte regionale di Dusseldorf
- I giudici di Dusseldorf ribaltano la sentenza dell'FCO, dando ragione a LH, e dicendo quanto segue (copincollo da un articolo di cui sotto):
- The judges expressed "serious doubts" about the legality of the cartel authority's actions. In their reasoning, they pointed to a possible bias on the part of the Federal Cartel Office. According to the ruling, the proceedings were "not unaffected by political interests", with the Federal Ministry of Economics apparently playing a role in the background. This accusation of political influence represents a serious blow to the reputation of the Federal Cartel Office.
- While the Federal Cartel Office defined the market based on the flight network, the Higher Regional Court stressed that a route-based delimitation was appropriate. Bus and train should also be considered as alternative means of transport, particularly on domestic routes. This view suggests that Condor is not dependent on Lufthansa's feeder flights, as there are alternative travel options to bring passengers to the larger hubs.
- Tradotto, i giudici dicono che la politica avrebbe giocato un ruolo non indifferente nel guidare la decisione dell'antitrust a favore di Condor (e contro LH).
- Quindi, a leggere, sembrerebbe che sia stata tutta una pastetta interna alla Germania e che le infiltrazioni politiche sono state a favore di Condor e non di LH.
Lufthansa and Condor: An end to the long-standing pro-rate agreement is looming – Aviation.Direct
IATA - Codeshare and Special Prorate Agreements: An Introduction (classroom)
LOT Polish Airlines signs Special Prorate Agreement with Qantas
Lufthansa and Condor: A bitter legal dispute over feeder flights – Aviation.Direct
FCO Prohibits Lufthansa From Terminating Feeder Flights For Condor | Cleary Antitrust Watch
East End Ave
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Ma alla fine la spunta LH e Condor cancella.
E LH ringrazia.
BRUSSELS, Jan 15 (Reuters) - The European Commission told Lufthansa (LHAG.DE)
on Wednesday it would order the German flag carrier to reinstate charter airline Condor's access to Lufthansa's short-haul network to feed Condor's Frankfurt-New York route.
The expected interim measure is part of the Commission's investigation into the joint venture between Lufthansa, United, and Air Canada, which the EU executive believes may restrict competition for Frankfurt-New York flights.
The Commission said Lufthansa should reinstate arrangements agreed in June 2024 that provided feeder traffic to Condor to and from Frankfurt, but ceased to apply in December. Without the arrangements, Condor might be forced to exit the Frankfurt-New York route, the Commission said.
Condor said it welcomed the Commission's stance.
Lufthansa said it did not share the Commission's view and was examining the latest announcement.
It said a German court had ruled in December that Lufthansa did not have to continue the special agreements with Condor. It added Condor could, like other airlines, make bookings on its feeder flights at standard international conditions.
on Wednesday it would order the German flag carrier to reinstate charter airline Condor's access to Lufthansa's short-haul network to feed Condor's Frankfurt-New York route.
The expected interim measure is part of the Commission's investigation into the joint venture between Lufthansa, United, and Air Canada, which the EU executive believes may restrict competition for Frankfurt-New York flights.
The Commission said Lufthansa should reinstate arrangements agreed in June 2024 that provided feeder traffic to Condor to and from Frankfurt, but ceased to apply in December. Without the arrangements, Condor might be forced to exit the Frankfurt-New York route, the Commission said.
Condor said it welcomed the Commission's stance.
Lufthansa said it did not share the Commission's view and was examining the latest announcement.
It said a German court had ruled in December that Lufthansa did not have to continue the special agreements with Condor. It added Condor could, like other airlines, make bookings on its feeder flights at standard international conditions.
Sto caricando...
www.reuters.com
East End Ave
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"er burocrate s'e svejiatooo!!!" (cit)
La livrea Condor, vista dal vivo, è pure peggio che in fotografia
Lufthansa rejects Brussels order to reinstate Condor feed
Lufthansa Group says there is neither a factual nor a legal basis for the European Commission's decision to provisionally order the company to reinstate competitor Condor's access to Lufthansa's feeder traffic at Frankfurt International.
In a policy brief published in February, Lufthansa argued that Condor was itself providing counter-evidence to its argument that there was no alternative to Lufthansa for the feeder flights.
"In addition to new connections to Rome Fiumicino, Milan Malpensa, Prague Václav Havel, and Paris CDG, [Condor] will fly twice from Frankfurt to Berlin Brandenburg, Hamburg, and Munich, starting in March. Condor is thus offering an attractive alternative to existing connections within Germany," it argued. "Condor's claim that there is no alternative to the Lufthansa feeder flights is, therefore, not true." It also pointed to rail traffic as a feeder.
Lufthansa flagged that both the Düsseldorf Higher Regional Court (Oberlandesgericht Düsseldorf - OLG) and, most recently, the German Federal Supreme Court (Bundesgerichtshof - BGH) had ruled in its favour. It cited an extract from the OLG decision that indicated that the Federal Cartel Office "did not conduct the administrative proceedings against Lufthansa from the outset in an impartial and open manner and free of political influence by the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs."
It also highlighted that two other competitors, Delta Air Lines and Singapore Airlines, operate on the transatlantic route from Frankfurt.
The German airline deemed the Commission's decision surprising as it had already reviewed the case twice, referring it to the German Federal Cartel Office in 2020 and the Federal Court of Justice in 2024.
The group reacted to the Commission's January 15 notice that it had sent a supplementary statement of objections to Lufthansa urging it to reinstate Condor's access to the feed traffic at Frankfurt, as was practised under a long-contested Special Prorate Agreement (SPA) with the leisure-focused carrier.
Lufthansa terminated the SPA in December on the authorisation of the German Federal Supreme Court (Bundesgerichtshof - BGH). The ruling overturned a 2022 determination by the Federal Cartel Office (Bundeskartellamt).
Lufthansa has tried since 2020 to terminate the SPA, which dates back to when Condor was still part of the group. However, the European Union competition watchdog expressed concern that without the feeder flights, competition between Frankfurt and New York was at risk in light of the A++ transatlantic joint venture between Lufthansa, Air Canada, and United Airlines.
Condor welcomed the European Commission's decision and legal opinion.
www.ch-aviation.com
Lufthansa Group says there is neither a factual nor a legal basis for the European Commission's decision to provisionally order the company to reinstate competitor Condor's access to Lufthansa's feeder traffic at Frankfurt International.
In a policy brief published in February, Lufthansa argued that Condor was itself providing counter-evidence to its argument that there was no alternative to Lufthansa for the feeder flights.
"In addition to new connections to Rome Fiumicino, Milan Malpensa, Prague Václav Havel, and Paris CDG, [Condor] will fly twice from Frankfurt to Berlin Brandenburg, Hamburg, and Munich, starting in March. Condor is thus offering an attractive alternative to existing connections within Germany," it argued. "Condor's claim that there is no alternative to the Lufthansa feeder flights is, therefore, not true." It also pointed to rail traffic as a feeder.
Lufthansa flagged that both the Düsseldorf Higher Regional Court (Oberlandesgericht Düsseldorf - OLG) and, most recently, the German Federal Supreme Court (Bundesgerichtshof - BGH) had ruled in its favour. It cited an extract from the OLG decision that indicated that the Federal Cartel Office "did not conduct the administrative proceedings against Lufthansa from the outset in an impartial and open manner and free of political influence by the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs."
It also highlighted that two other competitors, Delta Air Lines and Singapore Airlines, operate on the transatlantic route from Frankfurt.
The German airline deemed the Commission's decision surprising as it had already reviewed the case twice, referring it to the German Federal Cartel Office in 2020 and the Federal Court of Justice in 2024.
The group reacted to the Commission's January 15 notice that it had sent a supplementary statement of objections to Lufthansa urging it to reinstate Condor's access to the feed traffic at Frankfurt, as was practised under a long-contested Special Prorate Agreement (SPA) with the leisure-focused carrier.
Lufthansa terminated the SPA in December on the authorisation of the German Federal Supreme Court (Bundesgerichtshof - BGH). The ruling overturned a 2022 determination by the Federal Cartel Office (Bundeskartellamt).
Lufthansa has tried since 2020 to terminate the SPA, which dates back to when Condor was still part of the group. However, the European Union competition watchdog expressed concern that without the feeder flights, competition between Frankfurt and New York was at risk in light of the A++ transatlantic joint venture between Lufthansa, Air Canada, and United Airlines.
Condor welcomed the European Commission's decision and legal opinion.
Lufthansa rejects Brussels order to reinstate Condor feed
Lufthansa Group says there is neither a factual nor a legal basis for the European Commission's decision to provisionally order the company to reinstate competitor...
www.ch-aviation.com