Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Non riescono a trovarli, sono dispersi!
Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso - PUBBLICATO IL REPORT FINALE
- Autore Discussione Edoardo
- Data d'inizio
Re: Malaysia Airlines loses contact with MH370
Sì, ma dubito sarebbero particolarmente reticenti con USA, Cina, UK, Australia, Francia, o Nuova Zelanda, con quegli asset in volo, anche se non sono AWACS, se qualcosa è passato sopra la penisola mi aspetterei che l'avessero notato. Che sia la RSAF la fonte degli Statunitensi?Pensare che Singapore possa aiutare i Malesi è un po' ottimistico
Dwarf
Utente Registrato
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
When trying to locate a pinger beacon in deep water, the detection equipment should be installed on a self-propelled underwater vehicle (either an ROV/AUV or a manned submersible). However, this presupposes that the position is already known to within the maximum 2-3km detection range.
Quindi io continuo a pensare che sebbene l' ULB stia facendo il suo dovere non è facile trovarlo. Quindi nessun mistero se ad oggi l' aereo nel caso sia precipitato non si sia ancora trovato
come vuoi ma sempre da http://www.hydro-international.com/i...Retrieval.html:
When trying to locate a pinger beacon in deep water, the detection equipment should be installed on a self-propelled underwater vehicle (either an ROV/AUV or a manned submersible). However, this presupposes that the position is already known to within the maximum 2-3km detection range.
Quindi io continuo a pensare che sebbene l' ULB stia facendo il suo dovere non è facile trovarlo. Quindi nessun mistero se ad oggi l' aereo nel caso sia precipitato non si sia ancora trovato
iceman85
Utente Registrato
- 11 Ottobre 2008
- 2,587
- 1
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
secondo le ultime del giorno, la rotta seguita dal 777, da waypoint a waypoint oltre la penisola malese, lo vedrebbero diretto verso le Coco Islands nelle quali c'è una base aerea che il governo Burmese ha concesso in leasing ai Cinesi.
secondo le ultime del giorno, la rotta seguita dal 777, da waypoint a waypoint oltre la penisola malese, lo vedrebbero diretto verso le Coco Islands nelle quali c'è una base aerea che il governo Burmese ha concesso in leasing ai Cinesi.
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Il precedente piu' simile e' senza dubbio AF 447. Alla fine quello l'hanno ritrovato.
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Dice che un satellite cinese ha trovato dei rottami che potrebbero appartenere al boeing 777
http://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/mondo/2014/notizia/aereo-scomparso-trovate-tracce_2031988.shtml
Dice che un satellite cinese ha trovato dei rottami che potrebbero appartenere al boeing 777
stefano
Utente Registrato
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
24x22, 19x14, 18x13...un po' grandi questi pezzi o mi sbaglio?
24x22, 19x14, 18x13...un po' grandi questi pezzi o mi sbaglio?
- 1 Febbraio 2012
- 12,814
- 3,140
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Da A.net l'eccellente lavoro di sintesi dei fatti e delle teorie emerse.
First - synopsis
- The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing
- The last ACARS transmission was about 01:07 local. This does not mean ACARS was shut off - just that was the last transmission of ACARS data (See ACARS below)
- The last comms were a normal hand-off from Malaysia to Vietnam control at about 1:30 local
- It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.
- The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.
- There are some reports of a descent and turn based on primary radar. The descent was on the order of 3000 ft to 29,500.
- There are subsequent primary radar returns west over Malacca Straight.
- Since it is primarily radar - a reflection - we do not know that it is the accident a/c.
- We STILL do not know if it was a track (multiple returns) or a few points returns.
- We have 'reports' of SATCOM system pings for some hours after LOS (loss of signal)
- There is confusion (and argument) about the content of those pings and if those pings can provide location information (See SATCOM below)
- We have no ELT signal detected.
ACARS
- ACARS is an automated aircraft health management system that transmits a/c maintenance information to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.
- ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight - it is a maintenance system
- ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce.
- ACARS communicates via VHF or SATCOM (and maybe Wifi at the gate). The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS.
ACARS data from MH370
- MH370 sent 2 ACARS (or rather Engine Health) reports to Rolls Royce. The last was approximately 1:07
- Rolls Royce's would have expected only 1 more transmission at landing - that was never received.
- NOTE: this fact is in dispute - some reports say a transmission every 20 minutes or so was expected - however I believe that to be incorrect.
- The fact that the last ACARS was sent some time before the transponder signal was loss does not mean ACARS was turned off at that time. ACARS transmissions on this ship are not continuous
SATCOM
- SATCOM is a communications channel - Satellite Communications. It is a radio system that uses satellites to communicate various information.
- SATCOM is not ACARS - it is one of the channels ACARS can use.
- The last communication via SATCOM was the last ACARS message at 1:07
SATCOM Pings.
- The SATCOM system sends (or responds to) periodic 'pings' to/from the satellites. These 'pings' are a network communication that says "I am here." They are often called "keep alive" signals.
- SATCOM pings are not communicating a/c status, they are part of the communications channel.
- There are reports that SATCOM pings were heard for up to 4 or 5 hours into flight (or after LOS)
- NOTE: to those complaining it took to long to report this - remember the SATCOM pings are deep in the communications protocol and not what people would normally look at. How often do you look at the basic network traffic on your router?
- There is speculation that the SATCOM pings contain altitude, heading, speed. From a communications standpoint that does not make sense.
- I believe what is really happening is that experts in this system are trying to derive some location, speed, etc. information from the nature of the pings For instance, what satellites did they hit, when and how strong. Much like GPS, you may be able to derive information about location.
Way-point Tracks:
- There are reports and maps today of a track following way-points.
- The source (Radar? Satcom? Visual?) and veracity of this information is not confirmed.
- At this point I cannot state any factual data related other than it is being discussed in the press
Airworthiness Directive
- The airworthiness directive about corrosion near the SATCOM antenna does not apply to this ship.
- The ship DOES have SATCOM - but uses a different antenna
Search Areas Based on this information - authorities are searching:
- Along the planed route
- West over the Malacca straight
- North west of Malacca straight
- Near the islands of Andaman and Nicobar. Indian a/c report nothing found in this area.
- Unconfirmed: in the Indian Ocean. Initial reports were the US was sending the KIDD there, but I believe those were wrong
Conspiracy Theories:
- There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.
- We have no data to support any of them.
- The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the 'government is hiding it' aspects
- It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.
Mobile phones
- We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.
- We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.
We have lots of complaints about incompetence.*
- I've been in and in command of large emergencies and been the one responsible to communicate to large groups.
- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.
- Complaints continue and will despite what any authority does till something happens.
We have had a lot of "false" sightings. I can not keep up.
- This is common and we need to investigate the credible ones. Most will be false.
- The Chinese Satellite data has not resulted in any findings.
- Indian aircraft have searched (some) near Andaman and Nicobar and nothing found
----------------------
In summary
We KNOW 4 things.
- The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.
- There is some evidence that it traveled west. But that evidence is not conclusive or sure.
- We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.
- We have a better idea were it is NOT
Da A.net l'eccellente lavoro di sintesi dei fatti e delle teorie emerse.
First - synopsis
- The ship took off normally and headed on course to Beijing
- The last ACARS transmission was about 01:07 local. This does not mean ACARS was shut off - just that was the last transmission of ACARS data (See ACARS below)
- The last comms were a normal hand-off from Malaysia to Vietnam control at about 1:30 local
- It was a normal 'good night' on the Malaysian side, but Vietnam was not contacted.
- The aircraft dropped off secondary radar with no communication from the cockpit.
- There are some reports of a descent and turn based on primary radar. The descent was on the order of 3000 ft to 29,500.
- There are subsequent primary radar returns west over Malacca Straight.
- Since it is primarily radar - a reflection - we do not know that it is the accident a/c.
- We STILL do not know if it was a track (multiple returns) or a few points returns.
- We have 'reports' of SATCOM system pings for some hours after LOS (loss of signal)
- There is confusion (and argument) about the content of those pings and if those pings can provide location information (See SATCOM below)
- We have no ELT signal detected.
ACARS
- ACARS is an automated aircraft health management system that transmits a/c maintenance information to maintenance facilities like the airline, Boeing, Engine Manf, etc.
- ACARS is NOT a flight system - it is not needed for safe flight - it is a maintenance system
- ACARS is a subscription service and costs money. All indications are the MH370 was subscribed only to engine health monitoring and data from that is sent to Rolls Royce.
- ACARS communicates via VHF or SATCOM (and maybe Wifi at the gate). The communications channel depends on availability and is independent of the ACARS.
ACARS data from MH370
- MH370 sent 2 ACARS (or rather Engine Health) reports to Rolls Royce. The last was approximately 1:07
- Rolls Royce's would have expected only 1 more transmission at landing - that was never received.
- NOTE: this fact is in dispute - some reports say a transmission every 20 minutes or so was expected - however I believe that to be incorrect.
- The fact that the last ACARS was sent some time before the transponder signal was loss does not mean ACARS was turned off at that time. ACARS transmissions on this ship are not continuous
SATCOM
- SATCOM is a communications channel - Satellite Communications. It is a radio system that uses satellites to communicate various information.
- SATCOM is not ACARS - it is one of the channels ACARS can use.
- The last communication via SATCOM was the last ACARS message at 1:07
SATCOM Pings.
- The SATCOM system sends (or responds to) periodic 'pings' to/from the satellites. These 'pings' are a network communication that says "I am here." They are often called "keep alive" signals.
- SATCOM pings are not communicating a/c status, they are part of the communications channel.
- There are reports that SATCOM pings were heard for up to 4 or 5 hours into flight (or after LOS)
- NOTE: to those complaining it took to long to report this - remember the SATCOM pings are deep in the communications protocol and not what people would normally look at. How often do you look at the basic network traffic on your router?
- There is speculation that the SATCOM pings contain altitude, heading, speed. From a communications standpoint that does not make sense.
- I believe what is really happening is that experts in this system are trying to derive some location, speed, etc. information from the nature of the pings For instance, what satellites did they hit, when and how strong. Much like GPS, you may be able to derive information about location.
Way-point Tracks:
- There are reports and maps today of a track following way-points.
- The source (Radar? Satcom? Visual?) and veracity of this information is not confirmed.
- At this point I cannot state any factual data related other than it is being discussed in the press
Airworthiness Directive
- The airworthiness directive about corrosion near the SATCOM antenna does not apply to this ship.
- The ship DOES have SATCOM - but uses a different antenna
Search Areas Based on this information - authorities are searching:
- Along the planed route
- West over the Malacca straight
- North west of Malacca straight
- Near the islands of Andaman and Nicobar. Indian a/c report nothing found in this area.
- Unconfirmed: in the Indian Ocean. Initial reports were the US was sending the KIDD there, but I believe those were wrong
Conspiracy Theories:
- There are lots of conspiracy theories out there - from the Malaysian government hiding something to pilot suicide, to hijacking to whatever.
- We have no data to support any of them.
- The breadth of the countries searching alone makes me discount many of the 'government is hiding it' aspects
- It is likely there are covert (secret) resources in the area that are trying to provide the info without revealing themselves.
Mobile phones
- We know that if any mobile phones were connected to the tower - we would have a location and would search there.
- We don't have any reports or evidence of that - so I conclude that it is not viable to consider.
We have lots of complaints about incompetence.*
- I've been in and in command of large emergencies and been the one responsible to communicate to large groups.
- Even in the best situations, with cooperating agencies - it is easy to portray incompetence when what is really going on is hard work that is not providing the desired result.
- Complaints continue and will despite what any authority does till something happens.
We have had a lot of "false" sightings. I can not keep up.
- This is common and we need to investigate the credible ones. Most will be false.
- The Chinese Satellite data has not resulted in any findings.
- Indian aircraft have searched (some) near Andaman and Nicobar and nothing found
----------------------
In summary
We KNOW 4 things.
- The a/c disappeared from secondary radar and stopped communicating. We do not know why or what happened to it.
- There is some evidence that it traveled west. But that evidence is not conclusive or sure.
- We have not found it despite multiple governmental agencies from multiple countries searching hard.
- We have a better idea were it is NOT
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
potrebbero anche essere compatibili, non e' detto che ci sia stata un'esplosione che abbia ridotto i pezzi. Piuttosto, se ci sono delle misure, ci saranno anche delle foto! o no?
Shogun
Utente Registrato
- 18 Novembre 2010
- 1,184
- 28
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Parlando di tempi "recenti" c'è il 707 cargo di Varig scomparso nel Pacifico nel 1979.
kurenai no buta
Utente Registrato
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Cerchiamo di scrivere post quando abbiamo una conoscenza dei fatti e dei dati accettabilmente buona. Senza rancore, eh.
Sul fatto che non sia necessariamente facile trovarlo sono d'accordo con te, non ho mica detto il contrario. Ma che il segnale di di un pinger beacon sia acustico, non elettromagnetico, non è perché lo voglio io, ma perché così è. Inoltre anche adesso fai un po' di confusione perché le acque profonde di cui parla la tua citazione sono quelle di migliaia di metri. In 80 metri di profondità non c'è bisogno di ROV/AUV, si può rilevare un pinger con idrofoni vicini alla superficie calati da navi, o persino trainati da elicotteri. Inoltre anche il detection range citato non è applicabile così semplicemente, ad esempio perché in 80 metri di profondità la dispersione geometrica del segnale del pinger è fondamentalmente cilindrica, non sferica.
Cerchiamo di scrivere post quando abbiamo una conoscenza dei fatti e dei dati accettabilmente buona. Senza rancore, eh.
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Oggi alla CNN parlavano insistentemente di batterie al litio caricate in stiva... Non sanno piu' a cosa pensare. Intanto gli USA stanno mandando la USS Kidd e un P-8A a Nord dello stretto di Malacca verso l'oceano Indiano http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=121839
Oggi alla CNN parlavano insistentemente di batterie al litio caricate in stiva... Non sanno piu' a cosa pensare. Intanto gli USA stanno mandando la USS Kidd e un P-8A a Nord dello stretto di Malacca verso l'oceano Indiano http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=121839
EY460
Utente Registrato
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Le autorita' malesi hanno ammesso che il volo MH370 sia stato dirottato dai piloti a da qualcuno con le conoscenze techniche per far volare un 777 (e' anche vero che le autorita' malesi hanno dato talmente tante versioni e poi le hanno subito dopo smentite).
http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2014/03/malaysian-official-missing-plane-was-hijacked/
Sembra inoltre che l'ultimo segnale satellitare dal volo sia stato captato nell'Oceano Indiano Australiano (anche questa notizia e' da prendere con le pinze).
http://www.straitstimes.com/breakin...e-mh370-said-be-traced-sea-australia-20140315
Le autorita' malesi hanno ammesso che il volo MH370 sia stato dirottato dai piloti a da qualcuno con le conoscenze techniche per far volare un 777 (e' anche vero che le autorita' malesi hanno dato talmente tante versioni e poi le hanno subito dopo smentite).
http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2014/03/malaysian-official-missing-plane-was-hijacked/
Sembra inoltre che l'ultimo segnale satellitare dal volo sia stato captato nell'Oceano Indiano Australiano (anche questa notizia e' da prendere con le pinze).
http://www.straitstimes.com/breakin...e-mh370-said-be-traced-sea-australia-20140315
rinco59
Utente Registrato
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Non è che se le notizie le pubblica AP queste da monnezza diventano verità assoluta...
perché sostenere che potrebbe esser stato dirottato, e, magari esser atterrato da qualche parte, vuol dire, quantomeno, mancare di rispetto ai familiari di 239 persone..
Non è che se le notizie le pubblica AP queste da monnezza diventano verità assoluta...
perché sostenere che potrebbe esser stato dirottato, e, magari esser atterrato da qualche parte, vuol dire, quantomeno, mancare di rispetto ai familiari di 239 persone..
- 7 Ottobre 2011
- 2,105
- 9
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Anche rainews24 ha appena fatto vedere uno spezzone della conferenza stampa del primo ministro malese che per la prima volta parlava.
Hanno detto che l'aereo avrebbe volato per diverse ore e che l'ultimo segnale satellitare, sempre secondo quanto detto da RN24, sarebbe stato vicino le coste thailandesi.
Anche rainews24 ha appena fatto vedere uno spezzone della conferenza stampa del primo ministro malese che per la prima volta parlava.
Hanno detto che l'aereo avrebbe volato per diverse ore e che l'ultimo segnale satellitare, sempre secondo quanto detto da RN24, sarebbe stato vicino le coste thailandesi.
- 10 Dicembre 2007
- 15,082
- 3,510
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
On Mar 15th 2014 Malaysia's Prime Minister stated in a press conference: "based on new satellite information, we can say with a high degree of certainty that the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) was disabled just before the aircraft reached the east coast of peninsular Malaysia. Shortly afterwards, near the border between Malaysian and Vietnamese air traffic control, the aircraft’s transponder was switched off." Movements of the aircraft were consistent with deliberate action by someone on the aircraft. The aircraft could have flown on for 7 hours, the last trace of the aircraft was identified at 08:11L. The search in the South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand has been ended. Authorities are still investigating the possibility the causes of the deviation off course including the possibility of a hijacking.
Avherald
On Mar 15th 2014 Malaysia's Prime Minister stated in a press conference: "based on new satellite information, we can say with a high degree of certainty that the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) was disabled just before the aircraft reached the east coast of peninsular Malaysia. Shortly afterwards, near the border between Malaysian and Vietnamese air traffic control, the aircraft’s transponder was switched off." Movements of the aircraft were consistent with deliberate action by someone on the aircraft. The aircraft could have flown on for 7 hours, the last trace of the aircraft was identified at 08:11L. The search in the South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand has been ended. Authorities are still investigating the possibility the causes of the deviation off course including the possibility of a hijacking.
Avherald
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Non ha proprio detto cosi, il primo ministro malese ha dichiarato che con un alto grado di certezza ( che vuol dire ancora tutto e niente) quacuno , prima ha spento acars, quindi il trasponder, i movimenti dell aereo sono compatibili con qualcuno che sapeva come pilotare ( come fanno a saperlo se dicono di non riuscire a tracciarlo?) e l aereo puo' aver volato per ore.
L ipotesi del dirottamemto e' una delle possibilita'.
Fonte avherald che e' sempre quella piu attendibile.
Dunque ancora fumo negli occhi.
Non ha proprio detto cosi, il primo ministro malese ha dichiarato che con un alto grado di certezza ( che vuol dire ancora tutto e niente) quacuno , prima ha spento acars, quindi il trasponder, i movimenti dell aereo sono compatibili con qualcuno che sapeva come pilotare ( come fanno a saperlo se dicono di non riuscire a tracciarlo?) e l aereo puo' aver volato per ore.
L ipotesi del dirottamemto e' una delle possibilita'.
Fonte avherald che e' sempre quella piu attendibile.
Dunque ancora fumo negli occhi.
- 10 Dicembre 2007
- 15,082
- 3,510
Re: Malaysia Airlines volo MH370 disperso
Chiedere una mappa con tutti i punti rilevati dal radar dell'aereo in questione (o presunto tale) sarebbe troppo?
Se i malesi vogliono dare l'impressione che hanno qualcosa da nascondere, ci stanno riuscendo alla grande.
Infatti. Non ricordo in tempi recenti incidenti aerei gestiti in maniera così assurda dalle autorità.
Chiedere una mappa con tutti i punti rilevati dal radar dell'aereo in questione (o presunto tale) sarebbe troppo?
Se i malesi vogliono dare l'impressione che hanno qualcosa da nascondere, ci stanno riuscendo alla grande.