mauro.
Bannato
- 26 Maggio 2010
- 4,548
- 0
*** ALITALIA : Poste Italiane al 15% ***
- Autore Discussione kenyaprince
- Data d'inizio
- Stato
Non mi pare che lo status di socio rappresenti una precondizione necessaria per stipulare accordi commerciali come quelli che tu ha descritto.
no dai vedrai che arrivano, il problema e' giustamente, delle banche italiane che non hanno garanzie , e dei francesi, che non sono in gtrado di darne
Oppure: "siamfalliti sonfalliti prestitoponte nonarrivanaquelladataaammm
il mondo e' semlice visto da prospettive strategiche, sono gli esseri umani che poi lo complicano
potremmo proporgli un'opzione put
se i francesi si sganciano entro il prossimo anno le banche ricevono i soldi indietro con un po' di soldini in piu'
il problema e': chi cavolo fa la clearinghouse in sto pastrocchio ?????
bombatutto
Bannato
- 2 Ottobre 2011
- 2,919
- 0
Si. Dando per scontato che in giro non ci siano debiti in sospeso da pagare.
bombatutto
Bannato
- 2 Ottobre 2011
- 2,919
- 0
Non ho capito la battuta.l Mantra o Mantram (come viene chiamato in alcune regioni dell’India) è una potente e breve formula sonora spirituale che ha la capacità di trasformare la coscienza. Non c’è nulla di ipnotico o di magico, è solo una questione di pratica e soprattutto di non scoraggiarsi se non si ottengono subito i risultati sperati. Quando pratichiamo il Mantra stiamo richiamando il più grande potere che siamo in grado di concepire.
Non stiamo parlando di investimento se buono o cattivo, quando fallisce ecc tanto non sappiamo nemmeno cosa farà AF, ma delle due pagine di discussione sul banner delle Poste. Da quello che si legge sembra che Poste sia il socio di riferimento, in realtà nemmeno sono ancora entrati. Diamogli almeno il tempo di entrare per lanciare una carta dedicata o togliere la fee alle postepay, considerate che Amex AZ e Intesa AZ pagano la fee come gli altri.
Magari non gli interessa nemmeno, ma è logico ipotizzare promo congiunte specialmente con Millemiglia nel caso entrino con idee in testa, se invece entrano pantalonescamente direi che cambia poco ed il buon Silvio si è tolto anche lo scheletro AZ dall'armadio alle prossime elezioni.
Certo, ma dagli il tempo di pensarli e una cosa è farli da socio e una da partner esterno per il quale necessitano sicuramente di più tempo. Pensa all'ipotesi di non far pagare la fee sulle prenotazioni che si legge in queste pagine, i partner attuali le pagano per esempio...
ma non ha nesun senso
poste non e' decisamente un investitore di lungo periodo inutile intravedere ridicole sinergie
inoltre nella partita poste e' assolutamente ressiduale rispetto ai 2-300 milioni che dovranno cacciare le banche oltre al debito cher hanno gia'( ma li avranno ottime garanzie)
Condivido in questo articolo la missiva sugli aiuti di Stato messi in campo dagli stati esteri a beneficio di alcuni rispettivi "campioni nazionali", tanto per usare una locuzione piuttosto in voga durante la campagna elettorale del 2008 in Italia.
Il nostro amico UM78 ricordava una leggina di un mesetto fa' circa approvata in Francia ed a beneficio del gruppo automobilisto PSA (se non ricordo male) nel totale silenzio dell'Europa.
Diciamo però che il giornalista non mi sembra altrettanto equilibrato quando difende a spada tratta gli azionisti della privatizzazione AZ.
Il nostro amico UM78 ricordava una leggina di un mesetto fa' circa approvata in Francia ed a beneficio del gruppo automobilisto PSA (se non ricordo male) nel totale silenzio dell'Europa.
Diciamo però che il giornalista non mi sembra altrettanto equilibrato quando difende a spada tratta gli azionisti della privatizzazione AZ.
Anche io sono d'accordo su tutto, ad eccezione dell'ultima frase. Perché una volta sciolta la domanda "a cosa servono i soldi", diventa dirimente definire quanti ne servono e chi li sgancia.
E qui le cifre sono alte a piacere: da un minimo di 1 miliardo in su, se non si vogliono fare le ennesime nozze con i fichi secchi.
E qui sorge un problema che temo non possa trovare soluzione.
E qui le cifre sono alte a piacere: da un minimo di 1 miliardo in su, se non si vogliono fare le ennesime nozze con i fichi secchi.
E qui sorge un problema che temo non possa trovare soluzione.
Articolo interessante Pres. e considerazioni che abbiamo fatto diverse volte sul forum.
Come ho detto diverse volte, beccandomi anche dei bei attacchi, le domande che si pone il Messaggero un sistema paese serio se le pone e le affronta con serietà. La domanda che il Messaggero non si pone è se siamo in grado come sistema paese di gestire la situazione seriamente senza clientele politiche ed imprenditoriali. Se si, è interessante intervenire anche perchè con le cifre i ballo è possibile che ci costi meno di non farlo, se no bisogna trovare una soluzione una volta per tutte e per trovarla va disinnescato il ricatto occupazionale, altrimenti sarà gioco facile per AF o chi per lei porci un conto salato ma migliore di quello che sarebbe una chiusura totale.
Come ho detto diverse volte, beccandomi anche dei bei attacchi, le domande che si pone il Messaggero un sistema paese serio se le pone e le affronta con serietà. La domanda che il Messaggero non si pone è se siamo in grado come sistema paese di gestire la situazione seriamente senza clientele politiche ed imprenditoriali. Se si, è interessante intervenire anche perchè con le cifre i ballo è possibile che ci costi meno di non farlo, se no bisogna trovare una soluzione una volta per tutte e per trovarla va disinnescato il ricatto occupazionale, altrimenti sarà gioco facile per AF o chi per lei porci un conto salato ma migliore di quello che sarebbe una chiusura totale.
Certo, tramite BIN Lookup si puo' identificare qualsiasi elemento specifico di ogni carta.È possibile far distinguere al sistema se si tratta di postepay o una visa electron qualunque? Chiedo da ignorante
Inviato dal mio U8800Pro utilizzando Tapatalk
talè
Bannato
- 14 Ottobre 2013
- 33
- 0
Bruxelles, 25 ott - Il presidente francese Francois Hollande ha parlato con Enrico Letta del caso Alitalia. Lo ha detto lo stesso Hollande rispondendo a una domanda de Il Sole 24 Ore Radiocor a margine della conferenza stampa con i giornalisti francesi. Hollande non ha voluto pero’ indicare qual e’ la sua opinione sull’evoluzione del caso e sulle scelte di Air France.
Ultima modifica:
Se va a finire in tribunale potrebbe succedere di tutto. Persino che Lai si ricompra i resti di Cai e rivola, magari con Poste, Fs, banche, etc. Ovviamente almeno si spera che quei vecchi conti siano chiariti.
Noi italiani almeno in questo siamo maestri.
Noi italiani almeno in questo siamo maestri.
dario abbece
Utente Registrato
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304682504579153441936029138
ILAN—Alitalia is scrambling to survive by trying to coax more cash out of Air France-KLM SA AF.FR -1.78% . But new capital from its industry partner wouldn't solve one of the unprofitable Italian carrier's biggest problems: the lack of a viable hub.
Many battered airlines around the globe have staged comebacks by exploiting a strong home airport. A decade ago, British Airways IAG.MC -3.74% and Swiss International Air Lines used the high-margin business traffic generated by their hubs in London and Zurich, respectively, to turn themselves around, focusing on their best routes. Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. QAN.AU +0.39% and Japan Airlines Co. now are attempting to do the same.
But years of dithering by Italian politicians and Alitalia's protracted weakness have left the Italian flag carrier stuck with its main base at Rome's undersized Fiumicino airport and with its operations in the more-lucrative Milan market split inefficiently between two airports.
Airport hubs work best when many planes arrive around the same time, trade passengers and depart again quickly. But, experts say, years of underinvestment have left Fiumicino stretched to capacity and operating below the standards of airports in other major European capitals. And, while Rome draws millions of tourists a year, as well as politicians and religious pilgrims, it is home to far fewer premium business travelers than Milan, the center of Italy's industrial north.
"Fiumicino doesn't have the size to be a hub, while Alitalia doesn't have the size to make Fiumicino into a hub," said Roberto Pardolesi, an economics professor at LUISS university in Rome. "They've missed the plane."
Alitalia declined to comment.
Although the airport's owner, Aeroporti di Roma SpA, has been upgrading its facilities and plans to step up investment, industry officials say that may come too late to help Alitalia. The owner says one reason for its delay in making further investments was that it had to wait for permission to raise the airport's fees, which had been well below the European average for more than 10 years.
Meanwhile, a proliferation of airports near Rome and Milan—there are a dozen in northern Italy alone—has allowed foreign carriers to siphon off passengers who might otherwise have flown Alitalia and carry them via their own hub airports to Italy's north and east. That has forced Alitalia to chase budget-conscious travelers with unprofitably low fares, along with the limited numbers of Italian business passengers who want to avoid changing planes on long trips.
In Milan, one of Europe's wealthiest cities and a major business center, Alitalia competes with Deutsche Lufthansa AG LHA.XE -2.00% 's group of airlines, British budget carrier easyJet EZJ.LN -1.48% PLC and non-European carriers such as Dubai's Emirates Airline.
he airline's woes in its home market pose a fundamental challenge as it races to assemble a restructuring plan, which the Italian government fears will add thousands of Alitalia employees to Italy's long unemployment lines.
The plan has to persuade Air France-KLM that it wouldn't be throwing good money after bad. In 2009 the Franco-Dutch carrier paid €323 million ($445 million) for a 25% stake in the Italian airline as it emerged from bankruptcy reorganization and privatization. Now, just four years later, Alitalia again faces insolvency.
Earlier this month, Alitalia's shareholders, including Air France-KLM, agreed in principle to a €300 million capital increase and gave themselves until Nov. 16 to pony up. Alitalia executives say they have raised part of the sum.
Air France-KLM Chief Executive Alexandre de Juniac has said he wants to take control of Alitalia and won't invest more money unless Alitalia pursues an aggressive restructuring. People close to Air France-KLM recently have said the carrier is prepared to sit out the capital increase and let its stake be diluted if restructuring talks fail.
Alitalia's grip on the Italian market has been weakening for two decades, partly due to the government's lack of a clear transport policy, critics say. "It's a chronology of the disaster of transportation in Italy," said Giulio De Carli, chief executive of One Works, an infrastructure consulting firm.
A turning point for Alitalia came in the late 1990s. As Milan's small Linate airport neared capacity, the government built the larger Malpensa airport more than 30 miles outside the city.
The plan was to close Linate and develop Malpensa as Alitalia's main hub, drawing traffic from the region and connecting flights from across Italy. That approach reflected the fact that carriers tend to fare best growing from a wealthy city, where they can augment their higher-margin local traffic with lower-margin connecting customers from other markets.
Based on the Malpensa plan, Alitalia in 1997 agreed to a joint venture with KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. The two developed a strategy using KLM's Amsterdam hub in Northern Europe and Malpensa in the south.
But in 1999, Italian officials backtracked on their plans to shut Linate, leaving Alitalia's Milan traffic split between two airports. The decision "took away the economics under the Malpensa hub," former KLM Chief Executive Leo van Wijk said later. The reversal drove KLM to abandon Alitalia. KLM later merged with Air France.
With Alitalia reeling, European rivals flooded nearby cities such as Turin and Venice with flights to their global hubs in Frankfurt, Zurich and Paris.
The Italian carrier vacillated between Malpensa and Fiumicino for years, complicating both airports' development plans, but eventually settled on Fiumicino as its hub.
Amid frequent management changes and political fights, Alitalia missed opportunities that other smaller European airlines seized, compounding its woes. TAP Air Portugal found a niche linking Europe to South America and Finnair Oyj connects Europe to Asia directly over the North Pole, said Craig Jenks, president of Airline/Aircraft Projects, a New York consulting firm. Alitalia could have used Rome as a hub for destination further east, such as the Balkans, Middle East and Asia, he said.
But since Alitalia's bankruptcy reorganization in 2008, the fast expansion of Emirates, other Persian Gulf carriers and Turkish Airlines have "seriously undermined" any hope for Alitalia to shift its business eastward, Mr. Jenks said.
Emirates, for example, runs three daily flights between Dubai and Malpensa and one to Venice. Turkish serves seven Italian cities.
ILAN—Alitalia is scrambling to survive by trying to coax more cash out of Air France-KLM SA AF.FR -1.78% . But new capital from its industry partner wouldn't solve one of the unprofitable Italian carrier's biggest problems: the lack of a viable hub.
Many battered airlines around the globe have staged comebacks by exploiting a strong home airport. A decade ago, British Airways IAG.MC -3.74% and Swiss International Air Lines used the high-margin business traffic generated by their hubs in London and Zurich, respectively, to turn themselves around, focusing on their best routes. Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. QAN.AU +0.39% and Japan Airlines Co. now are attempting to do the same.
But years of dithering by Italian politicians and Alitalia's protracted weakness have left the Italian flag carrier stuck with its main base at Rome's undersized Fiumicino airport and with its operations in the more-lucrative Milan market split inefficiently between two airports.
Airport hubs work best when many planes arrive around the same time, trade passengers and depart again quickly. But, experts say, years of underinvestment have left Fiumicino stretched to capacity and operating below the standards of airports in other major European capitals. And, while Rome draws millions of tourists a year, as well as politicians and religious pilgrims, it is home to far fewer premium business travelers than Milan, the center of Italy's industrial north.
"Fiumicino doesn't have the size to be a hub, while Alitalia doesn't have the size to make Fiumicino into a hub," said Roberto Pardolesi, an economics professor at LUISS university in Rome. "They've missed the plane."
Alitalia declined to comment.
Although the airport's owner, Aeroporti di Roma SpA, has been upgrading its facilities and plans to step up investment, industry officials say that may come too late to help Alitalia. The owner says one reason for its delay in making further investments was that it had to wait for permission to raise the airport's fees, which had been well below the European average for more than 10 years.
Meanwhile, a proliferation of airports near Rome and Milan—there are a dozen in northern Italy alone—has allowed foreign carriers to siphon off passengers who might otherwise have flown Alitalia and carry them via their own hub airports to Italy's north and east. That has forced Alitalia to chase budget-conscious travelers with unprofitably low fares, along with the limited numbers of Italian business passengers who want to avoid changing planes on long trips.
In Milan, one of Europe's wealthiest cities and a major business center, Alitalia competes with Deutsche Lufthansa AG LHA.XE -2.00% 's group of airlines, British budget carrier easyJet EZJ.LN -1.48% PLC and non-European carriers such as Dubai's Emirates Airline.
he airline's woes in its home market pose a fundamental challenge as it races to assemble a restructuring plan, which the Italian government fears will add thousands of Alitalia employees to Italy's long unemployment lines.
The plan has to persuade Air France-KLM that it wouldn't be throwing good money after bad. In 2009 the Franco-Dutch carrier paid €323 million ($445 million) for a 25% stake in the Italian airline as it emerged from bankruptcy reorganization and privatization. Now, just four years later, Alitalia again faces insolvency.
Earlier this month, Alitalia's shareholders, including Air France-KLM, agreed in principle to a €300 million capital increase and gave themselves until Nov. 16 to pony up. Alitalia executives say they have raised part of the sum.
Air France-KLM Chief Executive Alexandre de Juniac has said he wants to take control of Alitalia and won't invest more money unless Alitalia pursues an aggressive restructuring. People close to Air France-KLM recently have said the carrier is prepared to sit out the capital increase and let its stake be diluted if restructuring talks fail.
Alitalia's grip on the Italian market has been weakening for two decades, partly due to the government's lack of a clear transport policy, critics say. "It's a chronology of the disaster of transportation in Italy," said Giulio De Carli, chief executive of One Works, an infrastructure consulting firm.
A turning point for Alitalia came in the late 1990s. As Milan's small Linate airport neared capacity, the government built the larger Malpensa airport more than 30 miles outside the city.
The plan was to close Linate and develop Malpensa as Alitalia's main hub, drawing traffic from the region and connecting flights from across Italy. That approach reflected the fact that carriers tend to fare best growing from a wealthy city, where they can augment their higher-margin local traffic with lower-margin connecting customers from other markets.
Based on the Malpensa plan, Alitalia in 1997 agreed to a joint venture with KLM Royal Dutch Airlines. The two developed a strategy using KLM's Amsterdam hub in Northern Europe and Malpensa in the south.
But in 1999, Italian officials backtracked on their plans to shut Linate, leaving Alitalia's Milan traffic split between two airports. The decision "took away the economics under the Malpensa hub," former KLM Chief Executive Leo van Wijk said later. The reversal drove KLM to abandon Alitalia. KLM later merged with Air France.
With Alitalia reeling, European rivals flooded nearby cities such as Turin and Venice with flights to their global hubs in Frankfurt, Zurich and Paris.
The Italian carrier vacillated between Malpensa and Fiumicino for years, complicating both airports' development plans, but eventually settled on Fiumicino as its hub.
Amid frequent management changes and political fights, Alitalia missed opportunities that other smaller European airlines seized, compounding its woes. TAP Air Portugal found a niche linking Europe to South America and Finnair Oyj connects Europe to Asia directly over the North Pole, said Craig Jenks, president of Airline/Aircraft Projects, a New York consulting firm. Alitalia could have used Rome as a hub for destination further east, such as the Balkans, Middle East and Asia, he said.
But since Alitalia's bankruptcy reorganization in 2008, the fast expansion of Emirates, other Persian Gulf carriers and Turkish Airlines have "seriously undermined" any hope for Alitalia to shift its business eastward, Mr. Jenks said.
Emirates, for example, runs three daily flights between Dubai and Malpensa and one to Venice. Turkish serves seven Italian cities.
- Stato